612 - a future classic? | FerrariChat

612 - a future classic?

Discussion in '612/599' started by Kaspars Upmanis, May 30, 2021.

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  1. Kaspars Upmanis

    Oct 15, 2020
    15
    Full Name:
    Casper Smith
    Considering buying 612 as a weekend ("daily") driver while wanting a car that keeps up with inflation.
    Given the amount of cars produced, all-aluminium build and 4-seat, front-engined v12 - do you think this is an underappreciated future classic?
     
  2. randkin

    randkin Formula 3
    BANNED

    Aug 2, 2015
    1,497
    Somis, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    Not sure your thinking on this point is valid. Most cars will not keep up with inflation and just keep depreciating. I purchased my 1977 Porsche 930 TC in 1979 because I sincerely liked the car but it was always my “extra” Porsche so it never got the regular miles/use a DD driver would. It wasn’t until the last several years that it became recognized as a collectible classic and the value substantially appreciated. So, for about 30+ years it lingered at a substantially lower value. Had the reason for its purchase been for a inflation hedge I would have long given up on it.

    While I don’t know Ferrari values like I know Porsche values, I would expect the 612 may take on a similar appreciation curve – nothing for a very long time likely decades, then perhaps significant appreciation? Likely the earlier 612s with F1 will be at the lower appreciation end and the early 612s gated manual along with the later (2008 ½ - 2011) OTO cars will be at the higher end of appreciation simply based on the numbers of those vehicles made. Maybe a few hundred early 612 manuals and maybe 300-400 612 OTOs total manufactured out of 3,025 total worldwide production run of 612s.

    So all that said, I am not so sure buying a car mainly based on possible appreciation is such a good idea as it may never appreciate or when it finally does you may have long given up on the appreciation. Most regular road cars are not a good investment unless they are particularly rare and were very expensive when first sold. IMO

    Buy the car you can afford to DD and enjoy it and forget the investment end of the purchase since most will not appreciate in any reasonable period of time.
     
  3. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2008
    1,024
    Hamburg, Germany
    4-Seat Ferraris rarely appreciate significantly, even the rare ones. Just look at how the 456 GT manual performed vs a 575 manual (or even a 550) in the 2015/2016 run-up.
    612 Manual due to higher rarity might do ok in the long run but they have already appreciated and once again the gain has been far lower than a 599 manual. Same story for Sessantas as well but then they are not dirt cheap now so not sure how much appreciation room there is on them.
    612 is definitely an under appreciated classic but my money is on it remaining an under appreciated classic.
    Buy it to drive and enjoy, any other reason will probably leave you unhappy.
     
  4. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    I don't see this car meeting these goals.

    In this case, buy it because you like it.
     
  5. kahrl

    kahrl Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 19, 2009
    74
    Hudson, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Bob Kahrl
    I swapped out my single-mirror testarossa for a 612 OTO six years ago. I am very happy with it six years later. The TR may turn more heads, but the 612 is a beautiful and practical and a very fast car. I don't think that this car will start to appreciate until it is 30 years old. Don't buy one if your goal is to get your money back and more in ten years. Even the TR didn't turn the appreciation corner until almost 30 years old -- that's because so many of them were made, almost 7000 of them. There are only 1200 612's, about the same as the 365 GTB. I can't explain why the market undervalues F cars with back seats, tiny as they are. I think it goes back to the John Bond era when his magazine sniffed at anything with a back seat. I am convinced that most people who want to own a Ferrari should accept the fact that their car will be an expense -- not an investment -- unless they are buying something built before 1990, or something of which there were less than 500 made.
     
    Kaspars Upmanis and Makuono like this.
  6. F612

    F612 Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2018
    603
    Leeds,AL
    Full Name:
    David D. Hood
    I think there were 3200 +/- 612s made for worldwide distribution.
    There were only about 100 US OTOs.
    I don’t know why they are so under valued but my OTO is a far better car than is my 575.
     
    Makuono likes this.
  7. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    I prefer my TR>355>FF yet they made way less FF.
    My issue with the 612 is: not too pretty, sits too high, and I prefer to have a manual which is super expensive for a 612... still amazing machine!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    612 production was 3025, to the best of our knowledge.
     
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  9. Fcar dreams

    Fcar dreams Karting

    Mar 25, 2021
    134
    Manchester UK
    Full Name:
    Peter G
    I think 612s can only sky rocket in value and can confirm I’m not biased. But very slow depreciation is all that we can realistically expect, the benefit of this can go towards maintenance.
     
  10. Titobandito

    Titobandito Karting

    May 26, 2019
    67
    Switzerland
    I think the 612's styling, seen as a bit bland and controversial when new, is aging very well and only getting better over time. The all alloy construction, cool V12, and other tech in these cars adds to their appeal. They are pretty rare, and in OTO or other special versions even more than rare. I think all these factors help the 612 on a collectability scale, but it is a 2+2 Ferrari, and history suggests they drop like stones and don't really appreciate quickly. I think in 40 years, these might be seen as cool, rare and collectible, but I'm not so sure that a significant appreciation is coming soon. That said, OTO cars here in Switzerland are going for more than the low a few years ago, and performance pack cars as well, so maybe they might go up a bit.

    Of course, cars and guessing about appreciation is a terrible investment, especially when a 2+2 Ferrari is the investment. Buy, drive the hell out of it and enjoy.
     
    rynoshark, donv, Camp Freddie and 4 others like this.
  11. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,535
    Vegas baby
    If it is there's a lot of other F cars ahead of it.
     
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  12. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,535
    Vegas baby
    This car is one I have always said they should have made an SWB "sporty" version of. THAT could have been a classic.
     
  13. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 8, 2009
    1,635
    If a Porsche 914 can go up in value ........anything can. Just wait about 30 years.
     
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  14. RonH

    RonH Formula 3

    May 29, 2016
    1,061
    Newport Coast, California
    Full Name:
    Ron H
    The 612 is an incredibly fun car to drive, doesn't look like everything else out there, is relatively low cost in terms of maintenance, and at this point no longer suffers significant depreciation and so you can drive the crap out of it. There are not too many cars out there that can say all that. If you want appreciation go buy some stocks or bonds, but they are not nearly as much fun to drive.
     
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  15. DKurtaz

    DKurtaz Karting

    Aug 12, 2019
    51
    In my opinion (as an owner), 612 looks far more impressive than an FF. Perhaps if there is a willing FF owner in Munich we can do some back 2 back photos for a voting round..
     
    cgt000 likes this.
  16. msark

    msark Formula Junior

    Feb 18, 2017
    277
    Southern California
    This is a fascinating subject ..... I've attended 2 in-person Hagerty market / valuation seminars and one online. Great presentations and even more impressive Q/A from the attendees. What I've learned turned my thoughts somewhat and has helped me in collecting.

    Critical Points:

    A classic's collectability is based on it's desirability: The example used by David Kinney was the Avanti. Outstanding design and construction. Level 2 examples are very rare. Nobody cares because of a small number of followers and they are cheap.

    Scarcity in a popular market helps drive desirability and value: There are 1000's of Boxsters and 996 Carreras out there. The great thing about the market is that there is almost a bid / ask number known by the market on every car. The collectables in a broad market is COLOR, odd option spec's and 1 of Special Wishes cars. I have a Zanzibar Red Carrera and recently sold a Zanzibar Red Boxster. Less than 50 examples of each around the world. Why? Because when it was an available color nobody cared! It was not in the cool color pallet then but now it is. Manufacturers also falsely drive this with "Limited Editions"

    Popularity of the brand and manufacturer cancellation: When a brand is widely collected the creation of a "Classic" occurs based on the buzz. Look at OTO cars..... Yes, worth a bit more but I passed on a couple since the magic glass roof dimming system seems to fail. Porsche cancels air cooled and they are all classics. Ferrari cancels a V12 and or manual transmission and they will all be classics. Corvette's have gone through a similar progression.

    I have kept looking for the right 612. Not because it will be a classic I don't think it will but because the bang for the cost is great and the population of them is small. I am willing to accept they take quite a bit longer to sell than most other cars with the exception of Aston Martin.

    Only my $.02 worth but I find this an interesting topic.
     
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  17. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2002
    23,988
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    They did-- it's called a 599.
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Don- Affirmative, exactly what the 599 is plus a simplified, productionized Enzo engine.
     
  19. Cobraownr

    Cobraownr Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2008
    929
    Edgewater, MD
    Full Name:
    Donald Silawsky
    I have a 612 OTO and follow the model pretty closely. I am always open to new information, but I'm not aware that the revochromico roof on the 612 OTO has any issues. The delamination and mechanical (assist struts) problems that roof had on the 2005 575 Superamerica are well known (I had one). An updated electronic controller for the variable opacity seemed to be the fix and prevented delamination of the Superamerica roof if it hadn't already occurred and presumably would have been incorporated for the variable opacity roofs on the 2007 612 Sessanta and 2008+ 612 OTO. The 612 glass roof isn't movable like the Superamerica roof so wouldn't have the mechanical issues.
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    If you want to see the future go back to 1970 and look at the 365 GT 2+2. Its styling was less controversial. It had a well known, robust and powerful motor. It driving characteristics were generally liked. Was fast and a great road car. Came with all the bells and whistles offered in its day. Everyone liked it but it only sold 802 units in 3 years. It is still hard to get $200,000 for one and in fact according to Ferrari Market Letter has been steadily going down in value over the last 3 years.

    Lots of great cars never amount to much in the market place.
     
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  21. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2002
    23,988
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    And I own both a 365GT 2+2 and a 612! Both were meant for the same mission-- crossing continents!
     
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  22. 87testa

    87testa Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2006
    274
    Toronto, Ontario
    i just bought a 612 and already own a 365 GT 2+2. Both GT cruisers
     
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  23. RonH

    RonH Formula 3

    May 29, 2016
    1,061
    Newport Coast, California
    Full Name:
    Ron H
    Nice! A sensible fellow Canuck (aren’t they all)! I want on my tombstone, “he rode them hard and put them away wet”. Dont want “he bought great cars that he rarely drove and now that he is dead they are worth a lot”.
     
  24. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,346
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I’m with you Ron. When I die they’ll say, “What? He left his heirs with a 612 that needs belt service, new tires, new ceramic brakes, new plugs, and an oil and filter change, AND it needs to be washed!?”

    Oh the humanity! :D
     

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