Interesting how the 250 seems to emote more flare. Regarding the TDF vs 812C, their designs also seem to evoke very different emotions. The TDF seems to have more classic lines, while the 812C, especially the rear, encompass the aggressive lines. It will be interesting to see how they both age over time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There have always been "aggressive" looking Ferraris and people always loved them. Most people think of a low, red, wedge-shaped supercar, when they hear the name Ferrari. Retro/classic styling was never the marque's creed, apart from its big grand tourers (like the 456 and the 612). Elegance seems more like Aston Martin territory.
I think one of the reasons they avoided to install a rear window is because they still have to change it on the existing 5000 SF included mine
Yes exactly - a little flamboyance on top of all the Ferrari elegance is a lot different, and more appealing to us, than the pure flamboyance of others.
Yes all good points. Maybe we aren't hearing each other on the terms being used. When I say classic styling and heritage I am talking about the usual things everyone here speaks of regarding the old Pininfarina styling design elements, or the countless photograph comparisons that are even made in this thread and others about how car x looks like older car y with the same styling cues, in general. Not talking about making a retro car with curb feelers on it at all. I also would say that the interior design of a Ferrari is most definitely classic styling to the extent it is extremely high quality with extensive finishings that are above many other makes in terms of what is paid attention to. It is decidedly more classic, particularly with the extent of leather applications making it FEEL different than that of a modern Lamborghini for example. While elegance is something I agree could be applied to Aston Martin, I still find that the interior design and frankly even some cues on many Ferrari models barring a few extremes have elegant and mature components, but are decidedly NOT flamboyant at all. For example, the F12TDF which I have never driven but do fancy very much, is surely a dramatic car to drive, though other than a few external modifications, it is probably not that flamboyant or extreme compared to it's parents, but is a marvelous package to be sure.
Well I consider the 250 SWB to be very elegant, likewise the 250 Lusso or how about the 275 or perhaps the 308.....Ferrari and elegant go together like wine and pizza...well in my opinion anyway.
Same for me. I love fighter jets. The only sound that tops a screaming V-12 Ferrari is a roaring turbofan jet engine on afterburner. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
Am I the only one who finds this comparison stretched. Apart from the kicked up spoiler I see close to zero design similarities in the two cars. Yes they are both hardcore front-engined V12s but no amount of squinting makes me think of one when I see the other.
Would love to hear your views on the Testarossa (the one from the 80s) or the F40. Do you find them elegant?
Ferraris are sporty, elegant and therefore timeless, there are many also in the 70s / 80s / 90s. 365 / gtb4, BB 512,550 Maranello, 599, F 12 without counting the V8s with the 308/328 / 355CS. Or is it written in the history of the brand that a Ferrari design must provoke a feeling of fear and aggression in the mirrors of others ??? It is a caricature that one exploits when one is short of ideas. It is quite possible to exploit the symbolism of the shark in a classy and elegant way, and therefore timeless, as shown by the models most representative of the myth and the history of the brand.
Many Ferraris are "sporty and elegant" but the point I was trying to make was that those are not the only types of Ferraris that have existed. There have also been aggressive and wild looking Ferraris and ironically the two I mentioned happen to be the most widely recognised Ferraris globally! Just to be clear I LOVE the sporty and elegant Ferraris. My all time favourite Ferrari is a 275 GTB. I love the 550 and also the 599 (which btw many did not love). Yet at the same time I find the F12 to be a slightly boring design. I understand your points regarding hybridisation and weight of SF90S (made elsewhere) and that it is not a path you like. However, when it comes to design, I personally would much rather have Ferrari take risks and produce Avant Garde designs (which sometimes might not please everyone) rather than recycle the same tired design for the next 50 years.
I don't think Ferrari has been conservative in their design since the 2000s. Porsche did it successfully with the 911 ... Aston Martin with its new Vantage has made a forced break that leads the brand to bankruptcy, because this car is a commercial disaster. Old customers don't recognize each other and neither do new ones ... I am not against avant-gardism as soon as it keeps fluidity and consistency with history. I find elsewhere the SP 80 / c exceptionally inspired, just like the Monza in another style ... I am preferred to designers; which currently and all too often, assemble fronts and rears of cars which have no coherence, by wanting to be aggressive without any coherence by exploiting this mixture of effect of style Lambo and Mc Laren. The constant of a Ferrari succeeds, it is on the one hand the roundness of the curves and on the other hand the fluidity of a single line which goes from the rear to the front (Pininfarina concept). This is often no longer the case for various reasons ...
If your idea of successful design exercise is a Porsche 911 then you and I have very different expectations from a brand. Again, I don't disagree with all that you say but neither do I agree with all that you say and its quite clear that your and my expectations are fundamentally different when it comes to design.
I’m from the “Speak softly but carry a big stick” school. Although a Ferrari will never fly below the radar I prefer less spoilers/wings/vents etc and prefer aero incorporated into a coherent balanced design. The 812 sits right on the border in all its guises IMHO. The SF90 has crossed the border just like the Testarossa and F-40 did in the past. The Berlinetta Boxer and 250/275/Daytona was decidedly on the other side with many of the other classics and modern classics like the 458 La Ferrari and TdF. SF90 appeals to a different clientele which is ok if it brings more people into the Ferrari family. I like fast cars that look great but don’t scream it at everyone but everyone is entitled to their opinion and desires. Would I like a classically styled modern midengine V12 Ferrari to replace the 812? As I’ve said before-Yes! Even if it has some kind of assist- make as many as you want Ferrari- I’ll buy it- especially if it looks more like a BB, 458,Battista styled car and less Testarossa/F40/Aventador/720. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
This used to be the 812 VS thread and now we are talking fakes, replicas, and other shxt.......... Marcel Massini
My intention wasn’t to compare the 250 GTO and the 812 Competizione because they are incomparable due to the fact that 60 years separate the two cars. The 250 GTO was built uniquely to be a race car for homologation into FIA’s group 3 Touring Car category and the 812 C, despite its aggressive and race look, is primarily made for the road. Aesthetically the two cars are very different but interestingly, their designs share in common the fact that they are aerodynamically oriented. The 250 GTO body design was achieved in the 60’s through exhaustive wind tunnel studies made at Pizza University and I’m certain the 812 C design has also been supported by many wind-tunnel studies. On the 250 GTO the addition of the rear spoiler and also of a second spoiler hidden underneath the car are just two examples of the wind tunnel research that was made. The proof that the 250 GTO design was ahead of its time becomes quite evident when we compare its side view with the one of the 812 C and that was the main reason why I posted those pictures. The two cars rear side and the spoiler have identical angles and there are other aero elements located in various parts of the body whose purpose is similar confirming that’s a science that was already well known more than six decades ago. To close the subject I post the last two pictures of a 250 GTO and a 812 C in a similar back scenery. As I mentioned before the intention isn’t to compare the cars but to show views of the first and the “last” representatives of a very successful lineage of GT Ferraris.
