FORMULA 1 ARAMCO GRAN PREMIO DE ESPANA 2021: RACE *** SPOILERS *** | Page 15 | FerrariChat

FORMULA 1 ARAMCO GRAN PREMIO DE ESPANA 2021: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

Discussion in 'F1' started by SPEEDCORE, May 9, 2021.

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  1. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    If

    Agree with this.

    FIA tyre intervention stopped Schumacher's reign.

    Todt did not intervene with Hamilton's reign, possibly due to fear of being labelled racist.
     
  2. Nortonious

    Nortonious Formula 3

    Sep 20, 2018
    1,065
    TX
    Amazing that Russell could overperform it so quickly last year. Yes, I know, last year. But it still highlights Bottas' shortcomings.
     
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  3. Nortonious

    Nortonious Formula 3

    Sep 20, 2018
    1,065
    TX
    I've read this post about five times. I completely agree. And I like Seb, makes me bummed for him. I'd like to see him return to top form..well, behind the red cars anyway.
     
    Bas likes this.
  4. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2003
    4,186
    Cheshire
    I agree Alonso is a great driver (or at least was in his prime), but let’s just remember one thing; Hamilton beat him over the course of a season. His first ever season in F1 in fact.

    Lets also remember that Hamilton has had years in second rate cars - his first seasons at Mercedes pre hybrid. He managed to get victories in those seasons even though he had no chance of winning the title.

    So, in conclusion, yes, Hamilton has been boosted by having some great cars, but he’s also shown he can beat the best drivers in equal machinery and extract great performances from rubbish cars. He comfortably sits at the same table as Max, Alo, Leclerc from this generation. He has been a tier one driver his entire career. He sits at the same table as the best F1 drivers in history.
     
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  5. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

    May 25, 2019
    1,836
    NY
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    Jim
    The only thing I take issue with is the tired notion that "Hamilton beat Alonso over the course of a season, therefore Hamilton is better than Alonso."

    I hear that thrown around so much and it's such an oversimplification of a multifaceted event that happened 14 seasons ago. It's the equivalent of Rosberg supporters saying Rosberg beat Hamilton to take a championship from him without any mention of context, and that's the problem with a lot of fans. They only examine the context when it supports their position.

    Hamilton having a great rookie year and tying Alonso in points during a sub-par year suggests he was able to hang with a top tier driver from the get-go and most likely had the talent to continue to challenge a top tier driver in the future. It doesn't really amount to anything more or less than that.
     
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  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447

    Hamilton's first year in F1 was phenomenal. I remember it well, being a McLaren fan at the time.
    Hamilton came in a top team and was immediatly competitive, even against his twice WDC team mate Alonso.
    That created a lot of bad blood, as the Spaniard expected to have precedence against a rookie.
    His second year was less good, even if he won the title at the last race.
    The rest of their respective careers tell the story.

    Alonso went through several top teams, but never repeated his earlier success.
    Alonso became toxic in all the teams he drove for (McLaren, Renault, Ferrari, McLaren again) ..
    Whatever his skill, his career was damaged by his reputation and his attitude.

    Hamilton went through average years at McLaren after his 1st title, but his fortune changed when he joined Mercedes.
    The engineering strength there, plus the efficient organisation allowed him to obtain repeated success.

    Who is better, I don't know, but I know who is more successful! who made the right career move, and who didn't!
    Back in 2015,when Alonso left Ferrari (under a cloud), I predicted that he would never win a GP again.
    So far I am right!
     
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  7. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,286
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Hamilton said he was surprised to see the Red Bull’s rear wing being so flexible.
    So Fia announced yesterday to put in place new tests on this element.
    Is life not beautiful when you are a Mercedes driver ?:)
     
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  8. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,300
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    Bas
    MaFIA pro move: Kill the championship just as people are finally getting interested.
     
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  9. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Horner would be more than happy to make this call on Mercedes if he suspected Mercedes. Nothing new in F1 would you not agree????? Very much part of the F1 game this is lol

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-to-introduce-new-tests-to-clamp-down-on-bendy-wings/6507006/

    FIA to introduce new tests to clamp down on 'bendy wings'
    By: Jonathan Noble
    May 11, 2021, 4:41 PM
    The FIA is to introduce new rear wing flexibility tests ahead of the French Grand Prix amid concerns some teams are exploiting Formula 1 rules, Autosport can reveal.
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    Questions over the design of the Red Bull rear wing in particular were floated during the Spanish GP last weekend after Lewis Hamilton suggested its design was "bendy".

    The inference was that Red Bull could be exploiting a more flexible wing that rotates down on the straights to boost top speed, but then comes up back up into a normal position for the corners to provide maximum downforce.

    Red Bull team principal Christian Horner was clear, however, that its wing design had been given the all-clear by the FIA and passed all the current pullback tests that are used to test the rigidity of the designs.

    “Of course the cars are scrutineered thoroughly and there's pullback tests, and there's all kinds of different tests it has to pass,” he said. “The FIA are completely happy with the car, that it has passed all of those tests that are pretty stringent.”

    But on Tuesday, sources have revealed that the FIA has written to all teams and informed them that it is concerned teams are exploiting designs that pass the static tests but still flex at speed.

    In the note, a copy of which has been seen by Autosport, the FIA states that it is aware of designs that comply with the current tests but “nonetheless exhibit excessive deflections while the cars are in motion.”

    It adds: “We believe that such deformations can have a significant influence on the car’s aerodynamic performance.”

    In response to its concerns, the FIA has stated that it is to enact a clause in F1’s technical regulations that allows it to introduce new tests.

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    Ferrari SF21 rear wing detail

    Photo by: Giorgio Piola

    Article 3.9.9 of F1’s Technical Regulations states: “The FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.”

    The FIA note details a series of new tests that are being introduced and focus on the characteristics of a wing that rotates backwards at speed. The current regulations check on bodywork not deflecting either one degree horizontally, or 3mm vertically, when certain forces are attached to them.

    For the new test, the FIA is focusing on the behaviour of wings as they rotate backwards.

    The tests will include limiting the rear wing to just one degree of rotation from an axis normal to the centre plane when two rearward and horizontal 750N loads are applied at a set location.

    A further test, involving a 1000N vertical and downforce force, will similarly allow just one degree of rotation.

    The hope is that the tests will clamp down on teams trying to push the boundaries with clever designs that move when out on the track and in a manner that is currently not checked for when the car is stationary.

    With the potential for some teams to need to strengthen their rear wings to ensure they comply with the new tests, a grace period has been introduced. Current designs will still be valid for the next races in Monaco, Azerbaijan and Turkey, before the checks come into force from June 15.

    The first race after that date is currently the French GP on June 27, but there could be a calendar shuffle if the Turkish GP is axed.

    Horner revealed in Spain that he had been spoken to by Mercedes boss Toto Wolff about the matter.

    Speaking about Hamilton’s claims regarding a bendy wing, Horner said: “I was surprised to see his comments on that. But it's something that Toto has mentioned to me previously. I doubt it was Lewis' opinion, so probably came from elsewhere.”
     
  10. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    FIA has intervened by slightly altering aero this year and with a budget limit. We have a closer title race with this. if you are in F1 to actually WIN, you will by innovation and hiring top personnel. Racism has zero mention here at all. Technical skill, good organization and management and a driver who takes advantage of the car built by the team. Was same for MS. Period.
     
  11. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mercedes talk about flex wings and the whiners at RedBull now have this so its even lol :)

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-setting-up-working-group-to-look-at-track-limits/6507092/

    F1 setting up working group to look at track limits
    By: Jonathan Noble
    May 12, 2021, 4:11 AM
    A new working group is to be set up to look into the issue of track limits in Formula 1, amid recent concerns about a lack of consistent application.
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    The controversy surrounding a run of penalties that Max Verstappen has suffered this year for track limit breaches had prompted calls from Red Bull in particular for there to be a change of approach.

    The matter was discussed during F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali’s regular get together with team principals over the Spanish Grand Prix weekend.

    Red Bull team boss Christian Horner, who had been vocal about the problem after Verstappen lost a race win in Bahrain, and a pole position and the fastest lap in Portugal because of track limit rules, said the hope was that the FIA initiative to create a working group would result in a solution that worked for teams, drivers and fans.

    "I think there's been some healthy discussion, and there's a working group being created," said Horner.

    "We just need to come up with something that’s simple, clear and understandable for drivers, fans, and teams. It shouldn't be that difficult."

    The issue of track limits has been a hot topic throughout the 2021 season, with Red Bull in particular being on the receiving end of a number of sanctions.

    There have been attempts over the years to try to come up with a consistent framework for track limits to be judged on, but one of the difficulties is that the behaviour of the cars can change year to year.

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    Sparks kick up from the rear of Sergio Perez, Red Bull Racing RB16B

    Photo by: Mark Sutton / Motorsport Images

    So while an approach works perfectly well one year, a tweak to the technical regulations can mean that drivers are extracting performance in a different way and then abuse track limits in different places.

    That was especially true in Portugal, for example, where policing at Turn 14 was not needed in 2020 because drivers were not running wide out there, but became necessary this year because the reduction in downforce for 2021 was washing them out.

    F1 race director Michael Masi said that coming up with a hard solution that worked for all tracks was very difficult.

    "I think ideally, we would love to have a hard limit everywhere,” he said. “But it's hard with the circuits.

    "It's been an ongoing evolution process. In Portimao, there's some places that are track limit issues one year, and aren't the next. And vice versa.

    "So it's an ongoing evolution that we're working together with each of the circuits. It obviously requires significant investment from them from that perspective.

    "In one sense it would be lovely to have walls everywhere, as we'll see in a couple of weeks' time in Monaco, or in Baku, but obviously we're racing at different types of circuits all the time.

    "So when we look at everything from a safety perspective, we need to find the best balance of everything in each and every situation. Each corner is different, and each circuit is different.”
     
  12. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet

    Without becoming paranoid you have to admit that it is rather Bizarre that since 2014 it is always the same ones that are subject to visible and quick control procedures?
     
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  13. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    The leading teams constantly observe to gain advantage. They will inform the FIA when it suits them. I have no problem with this. Ferrari are well known in the past for this. It is part of the game.
     
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  14. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Ofcourse.

    The significant difference was FIA tyre regs intervention for 2005 was immediate and effective in stopping MSC continued reign.
    Job done.
     
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  15. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Red Bull will become slower, Mercedes can keep it's engines turned down for more of the season :D
     
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  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Yep. FIA during Schumacher and Red Bull years spend most their time trying to stop Schumacher winning.

    FIA during Hamilton years spends most their time slowing down those that are too close to comfort to Mercedes.
     
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  17. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Stop making excuses. Alonso stopped Schumacher's reign, made him retire.
     
  18. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    Seems like you don’t remember the 2005 championship.
    The Bridgestone tyres were just awful compared to the Michelin tyres.
    The FIA forced the teams to complete the races with the same set of tyres, knowing that Michelin had a tradition of excelling in the longevity of its tyres.
    The goal was obviously to stop the reign of Ferrari and Schumacher with their much less enduring Bridgestones. In 2006, only a broken engine at Suzuka prevented Michael from clinching an eighth crown.
    Not exactly a forced retirement I would say.
     
  19. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Nope, many Michelin drivers/teams finished out of the top 5 and never saw the podium. Alonso's team mate even finished 5th. Schumi got beat, nothing wrong with being a Schumi fan, does'nt mean I will give him a pass.
     
  20. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    I think Honda has the power now. Not at all times but is so close. Aero and lack of mistakes might be more important than power in the margins. Also circuit variation is key. RedBull should be favored in Monaco yes?
     
  21. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    ummmm......

    Arrivabene mentioned the same thing for Mercedes in 2018. FIA did absolutely nothing,
    "Arrivabene about Mercedes' flexing rear wing (apparently too much): That's the FIA's job, not ours. We are already busy to answer to all the questions they ask us every race. But yes, we noticed it. Let's see if also the FIA will notice it"
     
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  22. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    Yes, and it begs the question: What was the real motivation for protecting Mercedes under Todt's watch ?
     
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  23. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    I'd have to say Max, Lewis or Charles are favoured for MC pole.

    Sunday will remain ripe for Mercedes due to better tyre deg.
     
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  24. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    ingegnere, ricksb and 375+ like this.
  25. Nortonious

    Nortonious Formula 3

    Sep 20, 2018
    1,065
    TX
    In the first or second race weekend this year I recall Brundle or Croft commenting heavily on what they thought was a lot of Red Bull FRONT wing deflection. At the time I thought the scrutineer-commentating was curious. Lots of eyes on Red Bull wings apparently.
     
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