I don't agree. sensor response times are in milliseconds in today's world. Experience or inexperienced, no driver should be able to spin the car when accelerating from 0 kmh even if he gives full throttle if the esc is on.
That woul render the car completely "dead" and without feel. There's a reason why the manettino has several settings. What you suggest will create a car that needs no driver skill, not to mention a much slower car. If a car with such an intrusive ESC is what you want, why bother with Ferrari, McLaren or Porsche? A Merc SL will do that much better. A Ferrari is exciting because it takes some skill and experience to drive fast, and even though we see things like the above happen, you also have to remember how conservative they are set up from the factory. If it was set up in a more neutral way like some of us have our cars set up, the number of reckless crashes would grow quite a bit. Driving a car like a 488, F8 or Pista with the alignment dialed in properly, is very rewarding and it makes the car feel even more special. It is not for showboats or novices, but it gives the car an oportunity to deliver to its full potential. Now imagine a car like an F8 or Pista, running the conservative factory alignment, and then add an ESC system which does not allow for and wheelspin, sliding, drifting or the like. What would the point be? Limiting the car further is not the answer. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Nannies or no nannies, does not matter. Those who get into such trouble, do so because they act stupid. Like I said above, a Pista can do this in Sport or Race if you nail it. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Im curious , can you elaborate on this comment " running the conservative factory alignment ". I dont track my 488 GTB
Yes. What Ferrari does to keep the cars "safe", is to minimize the risk of oversteer, and especially snap-oversteer. If you take your car for a spirited back road drive, I'm sure you have felt the front end starting to let go and push when you get near the limit of grip going into, or during a corner. This is because Ferrari set the car up to naturally understeer. This means that if you push too hard, the front lets go first. This is much easier to control and correct, as it lessens the chance of a snap-oversteer. If you lose front end grip and panic, which usually result in people applying the brake, you more often than not, regain control as you get weight on the front which allows you to steer, and because the car is biased towards rear grip, the car has,a much smaller risk of snapping due to the weight transfer. Now is this fool proof? Of course not, but it greatly reduces the risk of snap when an inexperienced driver gives a sudden input that upsets the balance. This rear traction bias also reduces the risk of power induces oversteer, as the car starts to push if you get too throttle happy mid corner. Does this mean that the car cannot drift or oversteer? Of course not, but it greatly reduces the chance of it doing so due to a heavy right foot. Now if the car gets set up to be neutral like you would a GT race car, you get a car that is very agile, has mid corner grip for days, and really lets you apply power on the corner exit. However, this come at a cost. The high mid corner grip means that you lose the progressive feel of losing grip. You have grip for days until you don't - then it spits you off the track. To the inexperienced the loss of traction will seem like it came from nowhere. In other words, the car will still let you know that you are losing grip, but it will be more subtle and happen faster. This brings us on to our next problem. Unlike the rear grip biased car that starts to lose front, the neutral car loses either the rear or goes sideways in a full four wheel slide. If a driver senses this and panics thus applies the brake, then you regain traction on the front, but you no longer have any weight and grip on the back. The result is a sudden and very dramatic snap-oversteer. Lastly there is straight line breaking stability. The rear grip biased car will track nice and true during a sudden hard stop. The neutral car can act very loose in the back, and if the road slopes, there is moisture, or there's a turn, then the back end might step out if the braking force is not modulated properly. So while the car is much more capable, it also leaves very little safety netting for an untrained driver. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Same thing happened in an 812... video in the cockpit clearly shows Mannetino in CT OFF. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/another-ferrari-driver-812-totals-his-car-due-to-inexperience-with-ct-off-video-included.641645/ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
An experienced driver will not have an issue with all the nannies turned off. I regularly drive in the raw without any issue.
I agree for the most part, barring anger, frustration, unpredictable events that have not trained for before or mechanical issues, among a few other things. An experienced driver would know his/her and the car's own limitations, knows restraint and when to let it go wide open. He/she is smart, because while he/she is acting in the present, he/she is already looking and thinking about the future, the next corner. He/she learns the street/track and its characteristics in the wet, dry, with debris, wind, rain, etc. If he/she doesn't he/she acts with caution while remaining within the limits. He/she knows that a mistake can cause him/her the race, livelihood and/or life.
I hardly drive with traction control or electronic stability, but then again I understand race cars and their unpredictability.
I mean a toe out caused by failure of the left wheel/suspension could definitely cause that at a high enough speed.
Even with all the "nannies" turned off, you never really have the true raw power these days. Some things you cant turn off. A 500+ horsepower mid engine rear wheel drive on street tires without high downforce is not stable without electronics!
I don't think he was that high speed. The car was taking off. You still have 3 wheels under control. If pilots have been able to land a jumbo passenger jet full of passengers with a defective front landing gear (wheel was perpendicular to the plane), I highly doubt that this car, giving the benefit of the doubt (assuming that is what happened), at the take off speed, would have been the cause. This is driver inexperience in my book.
Depends on the manufacturer, but in Ferraris you do have all the power and the following can happen even to an F1 champ:
