812 VS Rumors | Page 317 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
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    #7901 ScrappyB, May 10, 2021
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
    I think the frustration stems from knowing that competing companies do offer systems that are market specific. Lamborghini uses GPFs on Huracans for China but not in the other markets. The V10 is also a low volume engine yet they’ve justified the extra development cost and manufacturing complexity in order to not punish customers in other regions. Lamborghini is keenly aware that sound is one of the top reasons why buyers choose a Huracan over its competitors and thus deemed the effort/cost worth it.

    Ferrari chose a different path for the GTS and now the 812C and have business reasons for doing so. Namely, that the cars will sell out regardless and perhaps thinking that a single global spec is more ‘equitable’ to avoid important markets like Europe and China having customers that feel cheated because other markets have a more powerful and better sounding version.

    Regardless, I love the car and would love one.... but part of me wonders what the engineers would have unleashed if allowed to develop two specifications.
     
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  2. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2004
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    two? At least three..perhaps more..

    His somewhat arrogant reply to me a while back -

     
  3. KenU

    KenU Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2004
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    Ch-e-e-e-r-s!!!
     
  4. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    I think we know what a Ferrari race-inspired 9,500 RPM F140 NA V12 with 830 hp would sound like without the muffle box. Heaven.
     
  5. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

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    Except according to day355, the target redline was to be 9,750 rpm. I believe he or someone said the power was also planned to be higher. I can only speculate whether GPFs are directly at fault for not being able to realize those figures.
     
  6. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    I like that the engine uses finger followers instead of bucket/shims. They've been around a long time and need DLC or other coatings because they have a constant contact point but they don't go for the ride up/down on top of the springs so less mass. Not a design you want to get dry and then cold start after long periods of inactivity.
     
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  7. Boots

    Boots Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2020
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    Well I feel cheated knowing that I have to deal the visual monstrosity that are NA spec side reflectors and our friends on the other side of the pond do not. Lol.
     
  8. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
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  9. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
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    You can't imagine how that detail change EVERYTHING. I seriously plan to emigrate to USA and start a political career just to obtain the ban of those orange things, ans get back to France :D
     
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  10. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
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    Perfect choice of words. Makes any car look cheap
     
  11. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

    Aug 27, 2020
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    I remember when he made that post to you. He was in extra aggressive mode at the time. He said similar to me.
     
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  12. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228
    so why the Aston Valkyrie can hit 10500rpm and 1014ps with 6.5L v12?? are the not street legal specs? and what will can do the street legal version? (I read that there will be)
    Honestly I expected mouch more from Ferrari considering that a pretty old 6.2liter on FXX reach 860hp/9500rpm. No gpf, ok, but the new V12 have higher displacement and is, as I said ,newer (tech advance...)
     
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  13. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    The arrogance he used on this thread was breathtaking. And then to completely capitulate and say “I’m gonna eat crow”, it’s startling really. I have no idea who he is (maybe others do) but my best guess is he’s a 12 year old trying to pretend to be an adult with some inside link to Ferrari. It’s really quite bemusing.
     
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  14. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    I think the issue will be that the Ferrari V12 has to work much better in a wider variety of situations than the Valkyrie and FXX with low speed tractability, NVH and other considerations much more in play. It also needs to be easier to maintain and have a higher reliability requirement (can’t remember but if Cosworth is making the V’s engine, and speaking as someone who owns a car with a a Cosworth built engine, good luck).
     
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  15. Hetmanski

    Hetmanski Rookie

    Aug 28, 2019
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    Hetmanski Yura
    after these detailed videos, can anyone explain what the reason was for making the back cover not glass?
     
  16. maxxy

    maxxy Karting

    Mar 31, 2020
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    max luca
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  17. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    You have to take into consideration the complexities and limitations of a road car engine; a track engine has less restrictions (driveability, noise, emissions). The F140 seems to be at its limit, given the regulatory restrictions and other road related requirements. Incidentally, it produces 128 CV/litre in both the LaFerrari and the Competizione.


    I would say weight reduction (and styling), but that's just my guess.
     
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  18. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228

    but with a bigger and more advanced engine one would expect to go at least on par with the 860hp of the much older 6.2L...
     
  19. JagShergill

    JagShergill Formula 3

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    Good spot eagle eyes !!! :)
     
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  20. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    I dont know the exact number, but I do know Ferrari builds its engines to not need a rebuild for a long time- I have heard the number as 100,000 miles. I doubt the Cosworth used in such limited cars is capable of anything near that. Should durability matter in cars such as these? I don’t know... If we would ask the man himself, Mr. Enzo Ferrari, I would imagine he could say that durability was a key component in many of his racing victories.

    I also remember a time when the manufacturers did not make the cars too loud, I think it was for some regulatory reason. The flap exhaust I think got us past that, and we got such screamers as we were used to for the past few years. But now we have new issues. Back then, people would tailor the sound of the car to their personal tastes with a choices from what became a robust after market for exhausts. It was common to see cars sold with Tubi or other exhaust. Perhaps purists will keep their cars entirely OEM, but perhaps some will decide to allow us hear this engine unleashed with some personal tailoring. I wonder if this might also unleash a few extra cavalli?


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  21. ForeverCar

    ForeverCar Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2017
    307
    I can’t really handle watching Shmee’s video so asking to understand if you all don’t mind.

    Is this truly 999 coupes world wide? For context, I am asking this question to help get to the truth. If this annoys you, I apologize in advance. While “everyone” is confident that it’s confirmed to be 999, the reality can still be different. An example I’ll provide is, “everyone” (prior to Marcel enlightened all of us) is also confident and *knows* that the 812 SF production is over (if you’re curious, no it’s not over with at least one to be finished).
     
  22. Boots

    Boots Formula 3

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    And yet it was @dcmetro who was struck with the ban hammer
     
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  23. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

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    Lo Que Pasó, Pasó , let's go forward to see some nice 812C combos ;)
     
  24. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

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    My thought at the time was he is a first year MBA student who had become quite the expert/guru after a Ferrari SpA case study class assignment.
     
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  25. F140C

    F140C Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2016
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    In past and modern times as well, I would guess so. Novitec, Fabspeed, Kline etc. all claim +XX Hp and Nm with their exhaust systems (840PS on the Novitec 812, for example). Not sure how they work around the GPF (in terms of technical and *potential* legal issues), that will be certainly interesting to see.
     
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