FORMULA 1 ARAMCO GRAN PREMIO DE ESPANA 2021:...QUALIFYING.... ▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄▀▄ | Page 4 | FerrariChat

FORMULA 1 ARAMCO GRAN PREMIO DE ESPANA 2021:...QUALIFYING.... ▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄▀▄

Discussion in 'F1' started by jgonzalesm6, May 8, 2021.

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  1. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    20,527
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    C'mon Lance, I know its Mazepin but you've gotten in the way of some drivers in your past have'nt you??

     
    Jeronimo GTO likes this.
  2. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet

    At the end of qualifying today, Vanzini commentator on Sky Italia and Lewis longtime fanboy has said: « Now no one can dispute that Hamilton is the greatest driver of all time. «
    Does not agreeing with that kind of statement make me a hater?
    At the same time, can I acknowledge that Lewis is a great driver while knowing that the circumstances are simply exceptional in his favour?
    I still think that the record (WDC) he will have at the end of his career will simply be disproportionate to his real talent.
     
    stavura, Bas, Picchu88 and 6 others like this.
  3. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    No but furoni... never seen anything like it


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. Jeronimo GTO

    Jeronimo GTO Formula 3

    May 15, 2010
    2,021
    +16

    :D:D:D
     
    classic308 and 375+ like this.
  5. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    11,882
    Lance is a journeyman driver now. Who'd have thunk it?
     
  6. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    It also keeps RB on the same strategy and minimizes the chance of an overtake via by RB pitting early.
     
    375+ likes this.
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    It does NOT make you a hater,all it does is to question your cognitive abilities !!
     
  8. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    That is the only play - go longer on soft or pit early to attempt a pass and run on hard or medium with hope they last. Max said tire management will be key.
     
  9. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    On a good day journeyman. Again see what Ricci and Norris said last year about this 'journeyman' More like family journey lol :)
     
  10. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    No need for personal insults. @jpalmito is making the very obvious and logical comment that if the historical greats—imagine Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher—had a car for an unheard of 7 straight years (of up to 20 and 20+ races a year) that won almost every race and pole position, with a teammate that offered little or no competition for the last 4 years, they also would have had a pretty good chance to rack up the number of wins, poles and championships HAM has accumulated. Numbers alone are not the measure of greatness. It’s just math.
     
    375+, stavura, Bas and 5 others like this.
  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    In all objectivity, there is no other measure than numbers and stats in F1.

    Trying to compare drivers who competed in different eras is simply subjective.

    Greatness is just a feat of imagination, and everybody can have a different one.
     
  12. GTHill

    GTHill F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2006
    14,053
    Double Wide
    Full Name:
    GT Hill
    Hey Mitch - Be careful of crossing lines with insults. Let's not direct any negative comment towards users.

    Thanks!

    GT
     
  13. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    If Senna, Prost or Schumi had the best car for 7 years and the same amount of races, and broke records, would that lessen their talent level?
     
  14. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    That’s where I think u have a point.
    People are mad their heroes have their records broken by Hamilton and live in the past .
    I have 0 doubt senna smashed Hamilton over a season...not a single doubt but it’s a different era.

    It’s a business. It’s not just a sport like it might have been years and decades ago.

    So what is Hamilton supposed to do? Go to a bad team.

    Let’s try to see what we would do. Say you are offered ur ideal job with the most money in ur favorite city and every year u have fun, would u leave to move to say Cleveland to take on a new lesser job just for the sake of a new challenge ?

    Most likely no one would. The notion that athlete should be loyal to one team, seek new challenges when it’s too easy etc... it’s nice but it belongs in the past. It’s not like this in the 2010,2020’s those guy want to have it all and have it all and approach this as a business where their images and endorsements are key to them.

    Do I wish Hamilton had a better teammate and took on challenges like Alonso and even Vettel did? Heck yeah but I can’t really fault him for playing it safe.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  15. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    Try following the discussion and I think you’ll understand the point being made and maybe answer your own question.
     
    ktu likes this.
  16. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Well said Sir. However Hamilton did not play it safe going to Mercedes IMO. Mclaren and Ferrari were the most recent F1 constructor's champions. Merc had not won since the 50s, (correct me if i'm wrong). That took guts, everybody thought he was crazy.
     
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  17. Killing Time

    Killing Time Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2008
    460
    Los Angeles
    Yes. That makes you a hater and you know it.
     
    william likes this.
  18. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet
    That’s a great argument! Aren’t you ashamed?
     
    Bas likes this.
  19. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
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    mathieu Jeantet
    It’s a simplistic, binary view of things, but it’s your opinion and I respect it.
     
    ingegnere likes this.
  20. simpen

    simpen Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2016
    291
    The simplistic view often used is that car performance and driver talent are seen as communicating vessels. More of the one by default excludes more of the other. Look up what is known as the the fallacy of the alternative disjunct: success in the life of rich kids MUST be because of their golden spoon and CANNOT be due to their inidividual talent, Hamilton's records MUST be because of Mercedes' dominance and CANNOT be because he is one of the most talented drivers out there.

    The most enjoyable moment of qualifying was the moment Crofty called Russell "Mr. Saturday" for successfully reaching Q2 (to park it on P15) and then swiftly moved on to Hamilton's 100th pole record, without him noticing any irony!
     
    Killing Time and william like this.
  21. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,299
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    I don't think anyone is seriously disputing that Hamilton has talent. Obviously he does. With Vettel's fall from grace one has to conclude he's the best of his generation (''generation'' is a broad term, I'm basing it on drivers that entered roughly at the same time. For example Raikkonen and Alonso are a different generation than Lewis).

    I disagree that Lewis is a true GOAT simply because the level of competition he's had has been lacking. No, it's not his fault that he's driving a car that simply has no real competition for the past 8 years.

    He's been beaten by teammates that he shouldn't be beaten by too often.

    I can go on but it's nothing that hasn't been said before and the 2 camps (goat or not goat) will NEVER agree either way so wasted keystrokes.
     
    stavura likes this.
  22. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Indeed at the time I thought he had gone mad.
    The truth is that he had the real informations about the huge investment that Mercedes was going to put in its Formula One project.
    Nevertheless it was a risky move and a very good bet!
     
    375+ likes this.
  23. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,299
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Not really when all the facts are laid out properly.

    Lauda told Lewis exactly how intense the developments of Mercedes where and what their goals where. The size of the team, the senior staff organizing the whole show (all proven guys time and time again). Mercedes was Mclaren's partner for years but this investment was waning off. Mclaren when Lewis joined them was the Mercedes factory team, Mercedes when they bought Brawn became the factory team. Follow the money.
     
  24. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet

    I know this for a fact, but now I’m just trying to be a little friendly with my opponents. I just hope I don’t get insulted every time there’s a disagreement.;)
     
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