All-Electric Ferrari Announced for 2025!

Aah ok, sorry I misunderstood?

Again, not saying anything bad about GM engines, just would not agree they are ahead in tech no matter how many races they win.

 

What a load of crap. For most people most of the time an EV is a vastly superior car than an ICE. They're quieter, better packaged, can be fueled at home, don't vibrate all the time, are simpler, have more power, have better 'throttle' response and can be powered by the sun.

Engine designers have spent a century trying to get the perfect torque curve, the smoothest engine, the fastest throttle response, and get better efficiency. EVs just leap frogged all of that.

 

^I like vibration and noise.

We used to call this "character", but today they are simply called "inefficient waste products".

 

Bingo, environmentalists. Not to get into P&R but you see what biden just did with oil and gas drilling on federal property. 20 years from now there will be no mining lithium in this country but, China will sell all we want until they say no and then what......

 

On paper not inferior for sure. As far as the experience, feel, sound, for me, EV could never match ICE.

Just personal opinion. I abandoned prioritizing/chasing all out acceleration for something more long ago.

 

However, "e-fuels" only purpose is to "negate CO2" by supposedly recycling existing so no new CO2 occurs.

Euro 7 regulations will apparently seek to require lowering thresholds on other chemicals, some never before regulated. For that, "e-fuels" will not be useful.
https://www.evo.co.uk/technology/203323/efuels-sustainability-and-sports-cars-manufacturers-weigh-in-on-the-issues

"e-fuels" will still emit pollutants that Euro 7 will restrict including particulates.

Not to mention that the EU does not recognize "e-fuels" as a solution at all. And, even if it were to recognize, it would require the wholesale replacement of all petroleum based fuels to synthetic to ensure they are used.

Problem is, current projected production would "satisfy" less than one day's usage (in EU), and that production level is projected to be available in 4 years.

Never mind the gargantuan expensive of "e-fuels" (consumer expense on the order of $35+ USD per gallon), to ramp up production to current petroleum needs will simply never be possible.

"e-fuels" will be used in racing and that's it, there will not be sufficient production to cover general aviation either.

Hydrogen is even less likely, not to mention extremely explosive and dangerous.

and, Enzo passed in 1988 and there have been many Ferraris offered with an option for "F1" or "manual gearboxes" since his passing, last one being the 599 I believe.

 

If electric power is so good for the "driving experience"-- why do makers put in fake engine noises through the stereo?

 

Yes, the high cost of e-fuels is indeed the problem, but this can be reduced by mass production. Also, please note that fully synthetic fuel are different to plant based bio fuels. Many airlines already use biofuels to reduce emissions. and recently KLM made a flight to Madrid using fully synthetic fuel https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-08/klm-makes-first-regular-flight-with-sustainable-synthetic-fuel
Yes, current legislation does not make exemption for particulates, but these can be easily filtered, even as a retrofit, for example diesel cleaners. But carbon capture production is viable, especially if the price comes down. Of course, it is all expensive, but so is EV and the roll out of complex infrastructure, and is is costly to the planet in many hidden ways.

Any change on a scale of an industrial revolution is expensive and requires new regulation, not old regs trying to fit a new world. There is not one solution. We need all forms: e-fuels for running classic cars, airlines, ships and, as you say motorsport; EV for light use applications once battery tech is both disposable and less dependent on rare earths...or rather they are recycled rather than continuously freshly mined; hydrogen fuel cell for heavy duty applications. Hydrogen is perfectly safe for this use, and is already for sale from Toyota and Hyundai. Perfectly safe, but precious few filling stations!. A hydrogen powered plane flew in 2020
and Airbus expects to be producing zero emission hydrogen planes by 2035.

Yes, I made a typo re Enzo's death as I was thinking about the last date the 412 was made (1989), being the last Enzo period car built. I did say there has been no other manual and auto box available simultaneously in Enzo's era, not after his passing. The point about within his era was to highlight the importance of history co-terminus with desirability. Post Enzo era cars cannot be as relevant historically because a) they were not made on his watch and b) they don't use the legendary engines which made the company great (not to say that there aren't superb post Enzo era engines) - but in the context of this thread, history and manual gearboxes are important (note the premium they trade over auto) because they distinguish the ICE from EV on altogether different grounds.

 

e-fuels made from reforming hydrogen (split from water) and atmospheric CO2 using only wind/solar power will never ever scale to satisfy anywhere near current demand, on any timeline, can't be done.

https://theicct.org/blog/staff/e-fuels-will-not-save-ice

not to mention the insane cost per hydrogen re-fueling station and the very low volume it can provide on a daily basis (around 200kg per day, each 'fill up' is 6kg, so that's about 32 cars per DAY!)
https://www.osti.gov/pages/servlets/purl/1393842

Hydrogen explodes, very dangerous, not a risk worth taking, not to be compared with "car fires"...those happen a lot, but rarely, actually never, do they explode like these:

https://electrek.co/2019/06/11/hydrogen-station-explodes-toyota-halts-sales-fuel-cell-cars/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-hydrogen-southkorea-insight/hydrogen-hurdles-a-deadly-blast-hampers-south-koreas-big-fuel-cell-car-bet-idUSKBN1W936A

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-california-explosion/

https://driving.ca/toyota/auto-news/news/hyundai-toyota-pause-fuel-cell-sales-over-explosion-in-norway

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/33408/why-we-still-cant-deliver-on-the-promise-of-hydrogen-cars

Further explores exactly how dangerous hydrogen cars are :
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1111440_how-do-you-service-a-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-at-a-dealer

All of that from about, maybe, 50,000 fuel cell cars ever made....

Regarding KLM flight, yes, saw that too, but, no question that e-fuels can be used in replacement of petroleum based fuels, not a question or concern, it's the costs and availability and if those e-fuels are not made by wind/solar power, there is absolutely zero carbon benefit whatsoever...which is the whole point of them in the first place...

 

Today we get Hydrogen by taking natural gas (a fossil fuel) then apply a lot of electric power (provided mainly by fossil fuels) to split it into Hydrogen and C02 (a greenhouse gas).

We then release the C02 into the atmosphere while we compress the hydrogen (using fossil fuels) and put it on trucks (powered by fossil fuels) so people can put it into expensive government subsidized family sedans powered by fuel cells so people can say they drive an "emission free" car while expelling water vapor into the atmosphere.

And the logic behind this is ....where?

 

Update from yesterday's analysts call:

We're also very excited about our first all-electric Ferrari that we will unveil in 2025. This important landmark in our story will offer us a new language to bring the uniqueness and passion of Ferrari to new generations. We will provide you with more details of how we will incorporate this into our exciting plans for the future at our next Capital Markets Day in 2022.

 

Don't forget to mention our rolling black outs. Lol. What CA plans to do when they ban IC cars by 2035 is beyond me. They can't keep the power on now as it is.

I have Zero interest in an EV Ferrari or any other EV sports exotic car. For a daily driver maybe, but I'm still not there.

 

All fair points. They are faster and quieter(personally, I like the engine and exhaust noise). Better packaging? Hmm I can't agree with you there. There are important questions that need to be answered before I'm convinced EV cars are the future.

what do we do with all the batteries when we are done with them?

how long before every household or urban housing building gets solar power that is adequate so that we don't burn fossil fuels to generate the electricity needed to power these EV's?

how do we mine all the rare earth minerals needed to make these batteries without environmentalist blocking the path?

 

Can I come over to your house for a “car weekend”?

 

For the performance, it makes some sense for every F to be a hybrid configuration (to get the low end acceleration component of an EV). Full electric has some disadvantages, but rich people (and corporations) like to virtue signal their faux greenism (and can afford it) so can't blame F for doing it.

 

Im not interested in EVs but, I dont blame Ferrari for seeing the future. This isnt about Ferrari, its about younger generations not liking what we liked. I see that everywhere. I cant stand how movies are edited now, it gives me a headache. I cant stand music now, it all sounds artificial.

But my 30 year old girlfriend? She loves modern stuff and laughs at what i like. She thinks 'my movies' are slow and ploding. She thinks 'my music' sounds cheap.

ITs the future folks...get used to it.

 

Respectfully disagree, I’m under 30 and I can’t stand the idea of a silent Ferrari or any sports car for that matter. Something that is 1800kgs+ and silent is a luxury cruiser akin to a Mercedes or Bentley, it shouldn’t have a prancing horse on it. It saddens me as I won’t be able to buy a brand new Ferrari (or other sports car) in the near future (when I’ll hopefully be able to afford one) that isn’t hybridized or electric, filled with screens that will look out of place in 2 years max and will malfunction in 4 years. I might be in the minority I admit, but Ferraris aren’t suppose to be for everyone they should be for the enthusiast not the novice but because it’s a publicly traded company they must adhere to the masses. Unfortunately we must accept the reality we live in that is run by (imho misguided) legislation and regulation.


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Good!

Hopefully all the pretentious little snots will want nothing to do with the old cars and I’ll be able to pick up an F40.

 

Respectfully, there are always outliers. A single data point, is not meaningful. Im sure there are tens of thousands of people your age who love ICE. but there are tens of millions who dont.

 

Sorry this little snot is still interested .


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Unfortunately you are correct, I wonder what will happen to those of us that prefer ICE for a weekend car in 20-30 years.


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Here you go.

 

Same dilemma for me. I'm under 30 and at the time when I will hopefully be able to afford a new Ferrari, I fear it might not be for me anymore. One can always argue there are a lot of older cars to choose from, but that's not the same experience, as going to the factory, spec your very own car, going tailor-made and the whole excitement until you can finally take delivery on your dream car. It just makes me sad.

 

There will be alternatives, even if they are micro manufactures like Glickenhaus and hopefully others will arise to fill the space and as you said we’ll probably be forced to go to the back catalog. A manual 360 Modena to me seems exceptionally appetizing .. now to earn the funds.


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No different than if you wanted to ride a horse (the kind that eats hay ) on the weekend.
Realistically tho, 30 years out is way too soon to worry about it. New cars today last 15-20 yrs no problem. Old days, a 10 yr old would be ready for the junk yard.
Hundred's of millions of ICE cars on the road. They're not going away in your lifetime.

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