812 VS Rumors | Page 308 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Frank_C

    Frank_C F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2004
    2,612
    Whistling through the wheat field in Texas
    Full Name:
    Frank Cavallo
    Well at least better springs maybe. Seemed like there was still the typical big car V12 roll on the video. The SF’s character vastly improved on track with the stiffer Novitec springs.

    At least they added some cooling elements to the brakes. I doubt they’ll be comparable to the Porsche GT cars from a longevity standpoint (too much weight/hp) but hopefully the brakes will last more than a weekend.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    of2worlds, Caeruleus11 and Bundy like this.
  2. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058
    You will very soon have touch buttons and screens everywhere on future cars!
    Welcome to the era of digital Ferraris stretching out their arms to you !!!
    I repeat myself tirelessly, but digital + electrification + the sound of silence = the end of Ferrari!
    The SF 90 paved the way and F 171 will press where it hurts ... just to start!
     
  3. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    572
    If you watch Doug DeMuro video review of SF 90 on YouTube it will drive this point home.

    This is a sad direction. Ferrari should go the opposite way.

    Make more exquisitely hand crafted and machined interiors like Pagani.

    Ferrari needs to take inspiration from Richard Mille not Casio.
     
  4. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058
    Ferrari is a brand that we will be talking about in the past tense in the next decade! there are a few of us here ... to our great sadness.
     
    MANDALAY, Boots, LARRYH and 3 others like this.
  5. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Amen. (sadly)
     
    LARRYH likes this.
  6. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

    Jan 10, 2009
    3,005
    UK
    Full Name:
    Simon Ashley
    The screens are done as it's cheap and simplifies the number of ecus in a car. On the move and in bright sunlight they are generally a disaster for hmi.
     
    of2worlds and Eilig like this.
  7. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 2, 2005
    2,504
    Earth
    Having spent some time in the SF90 on track with a number of prospective purchasers not one of them (more hardcore car people) expressed serious interest in the SF90. Most also really disliked all the digital sh*t.

    BTW I still cant wrap my head around why EU would ultimately want to kill off many companies by taking such a hard line "one size fits all" approach to the regulations. With all the technology available it would be simple to charge per gram of co2 and I would gladly pay (on a Ferrari that hardly gets used) - but politics is for another section of FChat :)
     
  8. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

    Jan 10, 2009
    3,005
    UK
    Full Name:
    Simon Ashley
    The car companies can chose not to meet the fleet average regs but the fines are very costly, approx 95euros per gram over the nominated average for each company, so ultimately if Ferrari have a big bill it will get passed onto the customer.
     
  9. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 3, 2012
    3,053
    UK
    A lot of negativity here after a very successful launch! To say Ferrari will be a past-tense brand in the next decade is, frankly, ludicrous. I don’t believe it. That’s not to say it couldn’t happen a way in the future but nothing I see ahead of us suggests it will yet be the case. Likely outcome? Ferrari will be just as comparatively successful against competitor brands as they are today. Individuals may not like it but that is quite a different thing from saying that everyone who could buy a Ferrari in the future won’t. The world changes, technology advances, but we will still race, people will still exist who have high disposable income and want to spend it on what they consider to be an aspirational product. What they consider life affirming may very well be quite different to what we do. That has happened over and over in history and I don’t see it changing.
     
  10. F140C

    F140C Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2016
    1,574
    Piedmont
    Full Name:
    Marco
    One of the best posts I've read in the past 10 pages.
     
    roma1280 likes this.
  11. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Then again, when in history have Ferraris been built w/o internal combustion engines?
     
  12. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 2, 2005
    2,504
    Earth
    And no sound and no soul ?? The only thing to carry them would be brand history - not great to have to rely on a single attribute.

    Lets not kid ourselves the future is bleak for those of us who love cars and their uniqueness - irrespective of brand. Reality sucks unfortunately
     
    Caeruleus11 and gliazzurri like this.
  13. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Enzo himself said it was all about the engine. So, Ferrari w/o an engine? :(

    I watched the David Lee and Jay Leno vids on SF90 and fell asleep during both.
     
  14. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    13,066
    Sunbelt
    Full Name:
    Bro
    Thats not so bad about 3k for being 30grams over the limit will help V12's stay alive
     
  15. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058

    Maybe we don't see the same thing ... some imagine and hope, others see what is to come ...
    It is another brand that is being established, other "products" (not cars, but the exact term is products).
    I hope it suits you ... sincerely and without controversy.
     
    of2worlds, Caeruleus11, [gTr] and 3 others like this.
  16. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
    1,369
    Full Name:
    T
    I think the biggest competition to Ferrari and competing brands won’t be each other, but the second hand market for pre-hybrid/electric era models. I feel it’s already beginning to happen as people (myself included) are rediscovering cars from the last few decades and buying them up. Inventory and prices are reflecting this new reality.

    I’ve always been one to chase the latest and greatest but am now finding more pleasure in researching special cars that were released before I began collecting.
     
  17. Boots

    Boots Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2020
    1,663
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Jake
    I think this is a fair assumption to be made. I can't be the only one realizing this but I'm seeing 458's getting snatched up like crazy, and the one's that are listed are fetching solid money. As the increments in performance begin to slow down between generation, there will be less justification to get into the latest and greatest model. I.E., the jump between 996 GT2 to 993 GT3 was massive, 991 to 992 GT3...it's there, but significant? No. Supercars are borderline becoming too good, and the differentiation between models, and brands is narrowing closer and closer. However I remain optimistic that somehow, Ferrari, Porsche, even Lambo will find a way to keep us all engaged.
     
  18. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    #7694 Eilig, May 6, 2021
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
    I've had this same conversation w/5 different car friends in just the last month. We're all doing this.
     
    cesman, Spider68, Caeruleus11 and 8 others like this.
  19. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

    Aug 27, 2020
    198
    Full Name:
    Thomas
    #7695 Tommy Boy, May 6, 2021
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
    Totally on-point. They just launched a car that is going to further cement Ferrari's status as the coolest super car in the market. The number of potential Ferrari buyers is exploding. The product will always remain limited. It is the top luxury brand on the planet.

    How is the company's death even possible? A very strong argument can be made for the exact opposite scenario: Ferrari's position as the most desired car brand will grow much stronger. The moat will get bigger and bigger. Its margins per vehicle will increase. Etc etc etc

    I am not talking about preferences for analog or gated shifters or SF-90 gimmicks - just a business case for whether the company is dying or getting stronger.

    That said, I would be collecting every single pre-488 Ferrari model if I had the chance or garage space.
     
  20. Prancing12

    Prancing12 Karting

    May 8, 2005
    61
    'Both the 812 Competizione and 812 Competizione A are equipped with a seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox, pushing the performance of the latter to new extremes and delivering a new gearshift feeling for the V12. Calibration of the control strategies has reduced shift times by a further 5 percent. Although it retains the same gear ratios as the 812 Superfast, the new car’s changes are even more sporty, thanks to the extra 500 rpm in maximum revs allowed by the new V12.'
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  21. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 2, 2005
    2,504
    Earth
    100% Agree - one need v6, v8, v10, v12 ICE cars as keepers
     
    Thecadster, JTSE30 and dcmetro like this.
  22. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    572
    #7698 Forza Scuderia, May 7, 2021
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
    I don’t know how their product planners sleep at night with all of the pending regulations.

    When you boil down what makes a Ferrari ( or other exotic ) special and worth paying 10 times as much for versus other cars ... it is these 3 things:

    1. Extreme race car inspired design versus other road cars
    2. More powerful and faster than other road cars
    3. Much more exciting sound than other road cars

    Now sling a skateboard full of silent batteries with 1,000 hp underneath any car including Ferrari and about 10 other respected brands. All run silently and none is meaningfully more powerful than the others.

    What is the value proposition for our beloved brand then ... styling?

    And how much will that styling mean when everybody knows that what it’s covering is, in essence, no better than what’s underpinning numerous other models from many other manufacturers?

    As a historic and luxury brand they can find ways to productize and monetize their halo for many years to come. But when it comes to making and selling cars ... how do they differentiate ... enough ... in a world where they and everyone else produces silent 1,000 hp battery powered drivetrains?

    This is a potentially an existential question.
     
  23. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2008
    1,024
    Hamburg, Germany
    Even though I don't agree with you always but I do like this post of yours a lot because in my mind it gives us another possibility. What if current owners of Ferrari try to maintain/grow the revenue levels which realistically might not be possible, they push way far into electrification, the true fans balk and the brand value plummets. The brand is no more as valuable to the owners and they sell it and there is a complete reset and Ferrari goes back to its roots of being a niche car provider not having to follow rules that mid-large providers need to follow. Almost every successful luxury brand that exits today (with a longer than 50 year history) has gone through this cycle in the past 30-40 years. I think this is a very real possibility for Ferrari as well.
     
  24. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,286
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    In my modest opinion, Ferrari will not be able to survive a total electrification of its range.
    Only the combustion engine can maintain its particularism.
    So there will be no choice but to develop zero-emission fuels
     

Share This Page