F1 PIRELLI GRAN PREMIO DEL MADE IN ITALY E DELL'EMILIA ROMAGNA 2021: RACE ▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄▀▄ | Page 20 | FerrariChat

F1 PIRELLI GRAN PREMIO DEL MADE IN ITALY E DELL'EMILIA ROMAGNA 2021: RACE ▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄▀▄

Discussion in 'F1' started by SPEEDCORE, Apr 18, 2021.

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  1. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    The tires. Always an interesting subject. RedBull vs Mercedes on how they are using them.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/is-mercedes-big-strength-against-red-bull-a-weakness-for-bottas/6362061/

    Is Mercedes' big strength against Red Bull a weakness for Bottas?
    By: Luke Smith
    Apr 20, 2021, 4:39 AM
    In the close Formula 1 world title battle between Mercedes and Red Bull, a strength of the German manufacturer's W12 car using its tyres could become a persistent challenge that may prove pivotal in 2021.
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    Mercedes escaped from Imola with its lead of both Formula 1 world championships still intact, but the team is under no illusions of the gap to Red Bull that remains.

    Lewis Hamilton scraped pole position for Mercedes on Saturday, aided by mistakes from both Max Verstappen and Sergio Perez behind. A rocket start by Verstappen then put Red Bull in control of the race, leading to its first win of the year, with a brilliant - albeit fortunate - recovery to second place sparing Hamilton’s blushes after a rare error.

    Mercedes trackside engineering director Andrew Shovlin conceded after the race that it was a “relief” to still lead the drivers’ and constructors’ points standings, and that there remains a performance deficit to Red Bull that must be overcome.

    “They will win this championship if we don’t improve our car very quickly,” Shovlin said of Red Bull. “That’s really our mindset - that we are still the ones chasing.”

    Red Bull F1 boss Christian Horner said after the race that he expected the title fight to be settled by marginal gains between the two teams, with one early battleground in 2021 surrounding tyre management.

    Mercedes may have struggled with rear-end instability on the W12 car as a result of the downforce cuts for 2021, but the team has worked to remedy the issue over the first two races. Valtteri Bottas said he felt “a lot happier” with the car after topping both practice sessions on Friday, giving the Finn hope of taking the fight to Red Bull.

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    Valtteri Bottas, Mercedes W12

    Photo by: Charles Coates / Motorsport Images

    But Bottas’s weekend unravelled in qualifying due to a very different issue. After setting a time in Q1 that would have been good enough for fourth on the grid had it been set in Q3, his pace plummeted, leaving him a lowly eighth on the grid.

    Bottas said after qualifying that he was struggling on corner-entry, marking a new issue to that encountered in Bahrain, which Mercedes later related to tyre warm-up. The problem was even more noticeable in the race as Bottas struggled to get his tyres into the right temperature window in the cool conditions, leaving him stuck behind Lance Stroll in the first stint. George Russell was able to gain time on the Finn by virtue of his warmer slick tyres - fitted two laps earlier than Bottas’s own mediums - before their race-ending crash on the approach to Turn 2.


    It marks a change in fortune for Mercedes. The team has traditionally fared better in cooler conditions and struggled more in the heat with its recent cars. Now, it has the opposite issue.

    “Over the years, we quite often struggle in hot conditions, and cold has been normally good because we’ve had good tyre warm-up,” Bottas said. “We’ve been really trying to develop the car, but didn’t overheat the tyres, but obviously with the negative that if we need to get quickly into the tyres, then maybe some other cars can do it better than us.

    “For me personally, for example compared to Lewis, it’s on such a knife-edge in qualifying, that sometimes you get it to work - like me in Q1, when I did a much faster time than in Q3, I got them to work.

    “It's all about one or two degrees of surface or tyre temperature. It’s hard to explain. Obviously track temp was changing a bit, depending how much cloud there was, so maybe that had a bit of a factor.”

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    Valtteri Bottas, Mercedes W12, Max Verstappen, Red Bull Racing RB16B, and Lance Stroll, Aston Martin AMR21

    Photo by: Mark Sutton / Motorsport Images

    Shovlin said the tyre warm-up issue was something Mercedes had to go away and work on in order to help Bottas turn around his tough start to the season.

    “The thing with tyre temperature, it’s often a very small difference has a very big impact on grip,” Shovlin said. “Unfortunately for Valtteri, he was just the wrong side of a lot of cars, and that gave him a very compromised start position. That’s one thing we’ve got to go off and work on with him, and help him understand.

    “In the race, he was struggling following and being able to overtake, just because he was losing front-end in the tow, but also the rear wasn’t strong, and again it was that theme that warm-up was a problem for him.

    “On the transition to medium, the warm-up meant that he got caught in that bunch of cars where some backmarkers, Max was there as the leader coming through, and that is what really triggered the sequence that ended his race.

    “I think all the negatives have come down to this issue of warm-up in those conditions, and we need to find a solution to that, then I think if we do that, the rest of it should click into place.”

    But while tyre warm-up might be a current Achilles’ heel for the W12 car, its tyre management as a whole is in fact one of the areas Red Bull believes it trails on.

    In Bahrain, Hamilton was able to keep his hard tyres alive for half the race and hold on - with some thanks to the track limits controversy - to beat Verstappen, who was running much fresher tyres.

    Horner felt a similar picture unfolded at Imola towards the end of the first stint on intermediate tyres. Hamilton had hung around five seconds back from Verstappen throughout the first half of the race, only to then bear down as they neared the crossover point to switch to slicks.

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    Max Verstappen, Red Bull Racing RB16B, Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes W12

    Photo by: Charles Coates / Motorsport Images

    Verstappen was radioing his engineer lap after lap, asking when it was time to pit, and managed to get a one-lap advantage on the Mercedes by coming in early. It caused the gap to grow again to five seconds, only for Hamilton to quickly close up before his mistake at Tosa.

    “The pace is obviously very close with Mercedes and I think there are strengths and weaknesses of the cars in different areas,” Horner said.

    “I think if you look at the performance on the inter, we were quicker at the beginning of the stint, they were quicker at the end of the stint. The wear pattern across the tyres looks quite different between the two cars and I would say.

    “Once they're on, obviously the same spec of tyre, in clean air, [Mercedes] looked very, very competitive. Indeed, he got the fastest lap.

    “It's very tight and it's about getting the most out of the car on a case-by-case basis. But I would say Mercedes again, like in Bahrain, looked a bit stronger at the end of the stints than we did.”

    Shovlin explained how Mercedes worked the balance between quick tyre warm-up and keeping the compounds alive for a long stint, leaving him unsure just how much of an advantage Red Bull had.

    “It’s always a bit of a compromise between the warm-up and then the longer run,” Shovlin said after the race. “Whether we got that compromise right, we need to go off and have a look at it. The glimpses we saw on the inter, it looks like yes [Red Bull] did [have better warm-up] - although Lewis has obviously sustained that damage.

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    Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes W12, leaves his pit box

    Photo by: Glenn Dunbar / Motorsport Images

    “On the medium tyre, it’s not so clear. I thought we were actually pretty good on warm-up there compared to them.”

    As F1 heads towards the European summer, it could be the warmer conditions naturally help solve some of the tyre warm-up issues - and help Bottas in particular.

    But for now, it is a trade-off that Mercedes is trying to manage as it aims to protect its points advantage against faster opposition.
     
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  2. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  3. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The stats don't lie, it's true, but that comparison isn't really fair.
    It doesn't take the quality of the cars these guys have.
    It's obvious to anyone following F1, that Williams isn't at the same level than McLaren or Red Bull.
    Even if it was a one-off, Russell did display a glimpse of his talent when he drove for Mercedes.

    But I agree that Russell damaged his reputation and irritated immensely the man who could give him a seat at MB.
     
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  5. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    I think both Russell and Norris are head and shoulders above Albon after watching F1 for 40 years. If either of these guys had been in the RB last year, Perez would not have been in the 2021 RB Seat. I have personally thought Norris from day one was a special talent.
     
  6. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

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    #482 John_K_348, Apr 20, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
    I still wonder about what Bottas said about "defending." If he was defending, what did he do? He claims and the stewards reviewed that he made no sudden moves. OK but are those the only moves you can make? How about a subtle squeeze? I suppose Russell did fall victim do a snap yaw on the wet with DRS, but it looked during the race, and from the Sky Sports announcers, that Bottas had slowly squeezed him out. It was not sudden by any means, like Prost's turning in on Senna at Suzuka. There, Prost clearly took a tighter line than before, ridiculous in fact since it would take him over the grass, and clearly cut off Senna under braking. It's a low speed corner and Prost miscalculated, Senna took advantage of the braking and shot the gap. I'm having difficulty reconciling Bottas claim of "Defending" while doing "nothing." Is it possible he was too subtle for the stewards to find anything? Is that a tin foil hat idea? How about when Hamilton "grade checked" Seb at Baku. Not brake checked but grade checked. THAT you can see in the telemetry because Hamilton's speed or throttle curve flattens and is not "smooth." That's my opinion at any rate. I remember Russell reacting to the right at the squeeze as if Bottas had moved towards him. That might not be so and it could be all down to snap yaw. More thoughts?
     
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  7. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    From the replay it's very clear Bottas moved to the right - it was only to intimidate (Bottas' calculation was probably that Russell would brake and abort the overtaking) and not dangerous in Bottas' eyes because he left enough space anyway, had Russell completely ignored the move.
    Unfortunately for both, Russell was neither bold enough to ignore the move and continue in his line (which would have put the cars closer, but no contact because Bottas was only intimidating, not actually closing the door) nor shy enough to brake; instead, he made an unnecessary avoidance attempt that resulted in putting wheels on the grass and losing control (and then crashing both cars).
    The issue is that at this speed he could not really guess whether Bottas would actually close the door, and he still did not want to abort the overtaking - Bottas should have considered this possibility before making his intimidation attempt.
    While one may question Russell's reaction, Bottas' move was the root cause - he'd better had driven faster to avoid being threatened by a Williams while driving a Mercedes (which was a ridiculous position to be in).
    IMHO Russell's biggest mistake was the way he commented the incident, appearing excessively upset in contrast to the calm and quiet dishonest attitude of Bottas.
     
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  8. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You echo my thoughts entirely.

    Bottas is not innocent in this.

    As for Russell, he became too emotional about it.
     
  9. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Russell is just frustrated to see that in a modest Williams he is able to attack the Mercedes that is rightfully his. Toto Wolff’s decisions are no longer based on merit at this level. Bottas had his chance, he should not be driving this car anymore.
     
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  10. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

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  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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  12. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    The amazing George left the dry line at high speed and entered a wet zone on the track to pass and lost control. All George all the time. I can only imagine the comments had this been LH making the pass in the same place.

    George per Mika, DC, Brundle and others is at fault. His reaction emotionally is Vettel-esque. Not a nice legacy to imitate.

    George apologized because HE was wrong. In all aspects.

    Amazing the lack of respect for his Williams team as well. Both cars out. Well done!
     
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  13. simpen

    simpen Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2016
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    It sure isn't, statistics can be used to prove any point ;) But I don't like (and I'd guess Toto also does not) the way Russell sees the Mercedes' seat as his God-given right as a compensation for being in the Williams purgatory. Bottas performance was dismal and cunning, but I feel Russell took the bait like a rookie. There was always a car's width of space available, but Russell got spooked and jerked his steering input leading to the crash, making him look stupid. He can get angry about violating a "gentleman's agreement" about overtaking, but if I were him, I would not rely so so much on the gentleman's agreement to put him in the Mercedes either. Better options might present them along the way for the silver cars and up to now, he is stuck on the lowest level of learning (outqualifying the billionaire sons)
     
  14. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
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    Tropical
    What a tirade ..cant remember Lewis getting anywhere near that..
     
  15. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    George the hero of Bahrain last year flushed his currency from that nice effort. Hence his very long apology. His entitled attitude on display immediately after the impact. He said nothing as to the condition of Bottas but concerned only about his 'seat'. His first words should have been to Williams, 'sorry guys, Im ok but the car is not' along those lines. Then if he is going to walk to Bottas ask if he is ok. Took Bottas time to get out but George only saw his future and cared little for his fellow racer. That is a losing position to take.

    If he has red mist it needs to dry up soon. After multiple seasons now in F1, the game he wants to be in should be apparent. He will learn from this but the question is why did it happen. He should have learned much already. That is the issue. His conspiracy comment was so useless.
     
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  16. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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  17. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    LOL so true!!
     
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  18. itschris

    itschris Formula 3

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    I wonder how much of Russell's behavior is due to lingering feelings on the "mistake" in the pits from last year. I honestly think he was completely crestfallen and hasn't fully recovered mentally or emotionally. I think that changed him... you can say it made him grow up... you can easily say it made him bitter. Either way, he just seems different to me.

    As far as the crash... I think it's clear Bottas squeezed him a bit and put him on the wet side of the track where it all went wrong. To me, why was Bottas even in the position... fighting and clearly about to be overtaken by a Williams. Was the embarrassment of that too much? I don't know. I don't think either driver did anything particularly glaring. The conditions were dangerous and you could probably argue that Bottas knew he was going to lose the position and should not have put Russell into a dangerous part of the track. Then again, Russell seemed to overreact at the same time. But either way, it all happens so fast and it's easy to sit back watching frame by frame pontificating what who should've done what.
     
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  19. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  20. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Read the Stewards report. Bottas never moved over or did not leave enough room. George took an outside line in the wet and ruined 2 cars and 2 races for 2 teams. Thats the simple math. There was a dry line. Bottas stayed on it. Its all on George but those who want an excuse blame Bottas simply because at the time he was slower. He owed George a fair pass. He drove the normal line. So George hit a wet patch and lost out. Learning was achieved. Too bad his mouth took off instead initially.

    To me the most glaring part was his idiocy around a fellow driver who appeared to be affected at the time by the impact. George and his ego need to rethink the entire event. His apology was appropriate and due to both Williams and Mercedes overall. He tossed points again for Williams. Thats alot of of money lost. Good job George.
     
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  21. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    The stewards can say what they want, the images do not lie - Bottas DID move and it's also clear he left enough space, so that Russell's move in reaction was actually NOT necessary. He overreacted and that resulted in the crash, but Bottas' move was a misjudged intimidation attempt.
     
  22. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-russell-was-right-to-be-wrong-about-bottas/6386824/

    The system and Stewards ALWAYS have more data and views than we do. When presented with that data George reversed himself rather quickly. Im sure Toto had some input for him as well, as is his right as his manager and potential future boss. Data from the link above.

    --Wolff later added: “I don't want him [Russell] to try to prove anything to us. Because one thing I can say knowing Valtteri since five years, he's not trying to prove anything.”

    A few hours later and Russell had certainly begun to see things in a clearer context: backing away slightly from putting the blame totally on Bottas for the crash. He had shifted his suggestion to it being an accident that needn’t have happened.


    His view had been enhanced by watching some CCTV footage of the crash that wasn't broadcasted that offered different angles from those shown on the world feed.


    “You know, when you can review everything and look at it in slow motion and everything, and from certain camera angles, it all looks very different,” he confessed.


    Twenty-four hours later, with Russell having slept on it and likely having spoken to Mercedes team boss Wolff, the apology came.

    “I know I should have handled the whole situation better,” Russell posted on social media. “I expect more from myself, as I know others expect more from me. I've learned some tough lessons this weekend and will come out of this a better driver and a better person for the experience.”--

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  23. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    I can't help thinking all this stuff is just political noise.
     
  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Maybe Toto Wolff should send Bottas back to Williams, and bring Russell alongside Hamilton at Mercedes?

    Unlikely, I know, but one can dream.
     

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