360 F1 pump has gone south? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

360 F1 pump has gone south?

Discussion in '360/430' started by yelcab, Mar 29, 2021.

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  1. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Mine had exactly the same symptoms and it was due to a potentiometer.
     
  2. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,563
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    @yelcab

    I know i asked this a few times but when you run a health check do you get any errors at all ?

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    No error has come back since I cleared it last.
     
  4. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    @tazandjan , and @flash32 , if you could conduct a quick experiment with your F1 system in the garage. Does it shift into 3rd gear or higher gears, when idling in the garage with your foot on the brakes?
     
  5. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,563
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    Unfortunately i wont have access to my Scud for a while but let me reach out to @tonino ct .. he has a 360

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  6. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,563
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    #56 flash32, Mar 31, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
    Buy i have to say i never remember shifting into 3rd etc while standing still ..you may be on to something .. maybe it does have to be moving ..should a simple thing that i never came across

    I am sure someone can confirm

    That is exactly what the gear position sensor is probably doing when working fine
    . ..sensing rotation so that you can shift up ..when it fails it won't allow you to shift to 3rd or higher cause it doesn't sense movement

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  7. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    Flash, I am almost (but not 100%) sure that the TCU does not like to be in 3rd gear or higher when idling. Because as you apply the gas from standing still, the car would stall in anything higher than 2nd gear. This is why when coasting down to a stop, the car will automatically shift down to first gear as you slowly come to a stop.

    That would explain .... a lot.
     
  8. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,563
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    I see what you are saying and probably the reason for that sensor

    I can't believe no one has ever tried that ..including me

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  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    I have never tried it either.
     
  10. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,563
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    Do i checked with Tony and he tried since he wasn't sure . Result if engine running with brake on ..only goes to second .and engine off all gears

    So I guess at this point since you did actuator bleed, tighten screws and did a relearn you would have to take a drive

    I know you are doing a belt service so it may be a while

    I do agree for the incremental cost and considering that everything is apart ..maybe changing the accumulator would just be a good thing anyway

    Report back, when you get her out, if those two or three things fixed the problem

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  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
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    Mitchell Le
    Flash, thank you for the data point. It also explains there are no error codes ....

    The bottom panels are off, the rear bumper is off, the wheels are off, the interior is gutted, the access panel is off, the coolant is drained, the valve covers all off and the injectors are out for cleaning. I need a week before the thing fires up again.

    The accumulator arrives tomorrow. I will change it out. I wonder how long at rest does it take for the line pressure to bleed it all off. 55 bar is a lot of pressure.

    But, this is very good development. NOW we definitely know the car will not allow a shift into 3rd gear at idle and brakes on.
     
  12. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    #62 flash32, Apr 1, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
    There is a pressure relief screw on pump/solenoid assembly if you are concerned about pressure
    Also, i know the jury is out on what to bleed when you change an accumulator but i understand factory advises actuator bleed again - sorry
    I also would do a clutch bleed for good measures - that one is extremely easy
     
  13. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,563
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    Dominick
    torque on that pressure relief valve is 3.5 nm - FYI
     
  14. CrazyMD

    CrazyMD Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    403
    Southern California
    Very likely the accumulator. I went through something similar last month. Easy to replace.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    A disappointing update today.

    I finished the timing belt replacement and buttoned up the car. In the process, a installed a new accumulator, a new F1 pump relay, and a used Selection Potentiometer Sensor at the bottom of the actuator block. I took the car out for a neighborhood drive. It runs well, shifts into all gears, and then 15 minutes into the drive when the coolant temperature hit 1/4 mark, the F1 warning light comes on, and it does not shift into 3rd gear anymore. The error code with the gearbox is P1742 which stands for Selection Potentiometer error.

    I don't quite know what to think of it just yet. It clearly acts up only when it's hot.
     
  16. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,563
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    Yelcab

    As mentioned in PM and to keep this thread complete

    The selection pententiometer Is the one at the end I believe
    .try flipping them especially since you have a new one and see if error code changes

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
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    It's interesting that the WS manual has the names of the two sensors ... backward.

    I swapped the sensors but I am done for today. Test driving will have to wait until tomorrow.
     
  18. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,563
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    yeah ... it is scary how there are so many little errors in the various WSM .. wrong torques etc

    I am attaching a pic ( from Maserati) that displays the different selection (1) vs engagement (3) - just a helpful pic for everyone
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
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    Selection Potentiomer: It identifies which plane you are shifting among: 1-2, 3-4,5-6,or Rev.
    Engagement potentiometer: it identifies which position your gearbox is engaged in: Front-Neutral-Rear
    The combination tells the computer exactly where the shifter is at any point in time.
     
    flash32 likes this.
  20. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    Update this morning. Some good news for a change.

    After swapping out the "correct" selection potentiometer sensor, doing a Relearn, I took the car out for a spin this morning. No problems this time. It shifts well into 3/4/5 gears even after 20 minutes of driving. I really need to button up the bottom and get it out for a longer drive to be sure that I got the problem solved. But, guardedly optimistic so far.
     
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