Purchase experience with Ferrari of Newport Beach (split from Ferrari of San Antonio thread) . | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Purchase experience with Ferrari of Newport Beach (split from Ferrari of San Antonio thread) .

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Ray Smith, Sep 27, 2020.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,346
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Thanks RonH. This is getting curiouser and curiouser. Waiting for Ray to chime in ...............................
     
  2. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 17, 2020
    851
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Full Name:
    Raymond Smith
    Come on, you can't afford it. Admit it.
     
  3. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 18, 2005
    16,335
    Wellington, FL
    Full Name:
    Duane
    Other franchised dealers have been accused of odometer rollbacks BY THEIR OWN STAFF: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/02/28/former-ferrari-salesman-alleges-odometer-rollbacks/98506368/
     
  4. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 17, 2020
    851
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Full Name:
    Raymond Smith
    The service records would not have been an issue had I not read, on this forum and others, "never buy a used Ferrari without seeing the service records".

    I had never bought a used car before. Ever. So prior service records were never an issue.

    mcavinder stated very clearly that he wanted the service records.

    I you are correct, then I have one of the few used Ferraris with prior service records.
     
  5. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2004
    7,186
    FL, NY, and MA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Did you read the article and lawsuit?

    "The single odometer incident referred to by plaintiff was done after hours, off dealership premises, without dealership’s knowledge, without dealership’s permission and without the dealership’s authorization, by a technician who no longer works for the dealership," the statement reads.

    And, the lawsuit was brought by Bud Root after he claimed he was fired after wrongfully being accused of participating in an odometer rollback.

    I’m not saying it hasn’t happened, but I’ll be you a grand no dealership rolls back 130 miles from a car. If you find proof of it happening let me know where to send the cash.
     
    anunakki and Jamie H like this.
  6. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 18, 2005
    16,335
    Wellington, FL
    Full Name:
    Duane
    Do a search here, this is not the first time a franchised dealer been accused of a rollback.
     
  7. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2004
    7,186
    FL, NY, and MA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Explain why if you believed there was an odometer discrepancy, one that you’ve publicly crowed about, that you didn’t disclose it to Mike when trying to sell the car to him.
     
    anunakki likes this.
  8. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2004
    7,186
    FL, NY, and MA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Where’s one where a franchised dealer rolled back 130 (one hundred thirty) miles. I don’t see accusations let alone proof of such a minuscule amount. Like I said, rollbacks may happen but the scenario Ray has posted is improbable at best. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity... which in this case was probably a fat finger error on a service record and not odometer fraud.
     
    Jamie H likes this.
  9. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 18, 2005
    16,335
    Wellington, FL
    Full Name:
    Duane
    Name calling, 7 day thread ban.
     
  10. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 17, 2020
    851
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Full Name:
    Raymond Smith
    I can scan the service records I did receive and post them here, in chronological order. You will see that they never performed the services required to maintain the original vehicle warranty. They did not disclose this fact. And if they weren't required to disclose, why am I required to disclose? Although I would have been more than happy to tell any potential buyer these facts, let them PPI the car, and then make a decision.

    I did perform those services. All fluids required to be replaced (F1, brakes, gearbox) have been replaced. The MKI headers were removed and replaced with Fabspeed headers. Potential E-Diff failures have been eliminated. Aging mechanical relays have been replaced. The car has more visible lighting all around. It has the Smart F1 ECU. It will now pass a California SMOG inspection and not throw CELs P0430 ans P0431.
     
  11. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 18, 2005
    16,335
    Wellington, FL
    Full Name:
    Duane
    IIRC, one complaint about FoPB was a minor rollback on a LaFerrari. Ferrari subsequently changed their diagnostic computer so it could no longer do the rollback.

    https://jalopnik.com/ferrari-admits-to-knowingly-allowing-dealers-to-change-1823368905
     
  12. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2010
    11,926
    Blueberry
    Full Name:
    Muffin-Tops
    Ray, we have a saying. "Anyone can afford a car payment", so before you throw stones in that glass house at him...
     
    anunakki, Flea7, WATSON and 2 others like this.
  13. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2004
    7,186
    FL, NY, and MA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    I don’t see a reference to the “minor rollback” in that article. It’s the same singular complaint about the LaFerrari from Bud Root, the guy who was terminated for doing the rollback in the first place. I’m not convinced he is a reliable source of indictment.

    And according to that article Ferrari did not “change their diagnostic computer so it could no longer do the rollback”, rather they changed it so it “couldn’t reset to zero”. That function, illegal or not, couldn’t have been applicable in Ray’s case anyhow because he claimed approx 130 miles removed from a car with around 5,000 miles. We’re it like the Bud Root claim, the DEIS would have reset miles to zero per the Ferrari litigation doc.

    Isn’t it safe to say at this point, considering Ray’s accusations and subsequent loss of “clean hands” by intentionally withholding his mileage concerns from a potential buyer and knowing your own reference to the DEIS issue (which not only reset to zero it had been corrected prior to Ray purchasing his car anyhow), that FoNPB didn’t roll back miles on his car and that instead it was a clerical error made during service/odometer reading? Further, isn’t it reasonable to say at this point that Ray’s maligning of FoNPB was without merit in terms of a mileage rollback?
     
    Cigarzman and Jamie H like this.
  14. Cigarzman

    Cigarzman F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  15. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 17, 2020
    851
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Full Name:
    Raymond Smith
    Now you tell me, in that short dialogue, where I mislead Mike? Had we communicated by phone I would have been more than happy to tell him my experience buying the car, the battle I was forced to engage in to obtain even redacted service records (I was not interested in owner informaton, only service information). The redacted part numbers and prices.

    And recall, every comment on here about buying a used Ferrari includes the caveat "obtain the service records". I was simply following that admonishment. Remember, I have never in my life purchased a used car. I obtained that guidance here.

    I suppose I should have responded to Mike's request for service records by telling him what Sebastian Vollaerts, my Service Concierge, told me to my face: "You are not entitled to the service history of the car.".

    No entries were made in the owner's manual as to service performed, as they are supposed to be.

    As I stated in one response to him, the car is in better condition now than when I received it. Everything that was not done to the car that should have been done to the car, has been done. Plus, I upgraded the car with products to increase visibility, safety, and reliability.

    I have was willing to include all the Ferrari special tools I obtained to work on the car, as well as all the OE equipment I removed, including the OE headers and brackets. As well as spare parts like relays, etc.

    As to the mileage, why is it that when I noted the discrepancy is was chalked up to a minor mistake, but now suddenly it's a major issue?
     
  16. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 17, 2020
    851
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Full Name:
    Raymond Smith
    Says a guy who hides behind the anonymity of a screen name ...

    I have been very open about who I am, and where I live. I have nothing to hide, hence I can use my real name.
     
  17. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2004
    7,186
    FL, NY, and MA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Oh I see now, the perspective buyer needed to communicate in a way that you were willing to fully disclose anything relevant to the car and a PM didn’t meet those secret requirement. We should have known it required a phone call instead. It was clearly the buyers fault you didn’t share the mileage concern.

    While everyone seemed to believe it was a minor mistake, YOU made it out to be a felonious and dastardly issue done by the dealer you’ve spent a year maligning. YOU refused in this entire thread to back off of that position. YOU never relented in your claim the odometer was tampered with. YOU never acknowledged the potential it was a simple mistake. It’s only logical if it were such a major issue to you you’d have shared it out of interest of full disclosure. How that fact escapes you now is absolutely remarkable.


    And just for posterity, let’s remind you of this gem showing your viewpoint on forthrightness:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    anunakki, Jamie H, Cigarzman and 2 others like this.
  18. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2010
    11,926
    Blueberry
    Full Name:
    Muffin-Tops
    Yes, “that” dude who hides behind a computer :rolleyes:

    thanks again Kirk!

    throwback to when you sent me an expensive box of cigars while I was in Iraq from your anonymous lair in Florida. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    21,610
    WI
    Wow. That's pretty big of you Ray...bigger dick shaming on here is a losers game.

    Can YOU afford it? Because right now, it sounds like you can't and why you need to sell it.
     
  20. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3
    BANNED

    Oct 17, 2015
    2,419
    Ray, you lost the credibility because effectively you have done exactly what you complained about Newport Beach - not fully disclosed history to your potential buyer about what you griped the most, roll back of odometer.

    Tsk, tsk, tsk.
     
  21. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3
    BANNED

    Oct 17, 2015
    2,419
    Thank you for your service, sir!
     
  22. RonH

    RonH Formula 3

    May 29, 2016
    1,061
    Newport Coast, California
    Full Name:
    Ron H
    Interesting, Ray Smith suddenly reappears and attacks mcavinder who outed him for failure to disclose all the “problems” with car and the lack of servicing that he listed early in this thread HOWEVER he does not at all address the fact that he appears to have libeled Ferrari of Newport Beach in a hissy fit over not getting records while at the same time he is posting on the Corvette Forum:

    The “car is pristine”. “The rich guy who owned it never drove it but did have it serviced regularly”.

    Ray, you want to comment on that?
     
    anunakki likes this.
  23. RonH

    RonH Formula 3

    May 29, 2016
    1,061
    Newport Coast, California
    Full Name:
    Ron H
    I burst out laughing when I read this. Well done! I am quite sure they would take Ray’s car and “promise” him a great price for it.

    However, it is a bit of an inside regional joke. For you not in the know, CNC was/is a local exotics dealer that has “issues” with its forthrightness and Ray and CNC certainly seem to be a match made in heaven.

    For those interested, this thread is very eye opening:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/sooo-what-happened-to-c-c.638091/
     
  24. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 17, 2020
    851
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Full Name:
    Raymond Smith
    That was my knowledge when I posted that. It was only months later that I started to obtain service records in dribs and drabs that I discovered that the car had been serviced only sporadically and not completely according to the dealer's own comments.

    I will scan the service records and post them. you tell me if you would have bought the car knowing it had MKI headers, had never had the F1 system flushed, had never had the brake fluid flushed, and never had the gearbox oil changed? I would not have. Which is why they didn't begin to appear until after the ink was dry. There was one oil change, performed just prior to sale. No record of any others. But plenty of dealer recommendations to replace things that the owner refused.

    And I'm quite willing to bet that had I taken the car to the dealer they would have urgently recommended all the things I eventual did for the car.

    I was quite willing to provide the service records to Mike, and he could have drawn his own conclusions. Probably the same ones as me.

    The mileage issue arose when I noticed the mileage varied on different service invoices. Lower mileage on later visits. Now where did I get the idea that the mileage could be rolled back? That's right, F-Chat.

    Check your definition of "libel". It ain't libel if it's true.

    And finally, I didn't "attack" mcavinder. I posted his PMs.
     
  25. Cigarzman

    Cigarzman F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Ray , let’s do some math. You’ve been here for less than a year and you’ve tried to hustle your storied car to another member here on this forum. You certainly know how to win friends. I on the other hand have been here almost 7 years with zero issues. My friends here all know my name and if you do a little digging you can find out too. Hide .... I think not. Oh I found a book for you to read.
     
    Thecadster, Jamie H, IloveGT and 2 others like this.

Share This Page