458 Spider - Fuel Pump Fuses? | FerrariChat

458 Spider - Fuel Pump Fuses?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Richard Browne, Mar 20, 2021.

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  1. Richard Browne

    Richard Browne Karting

    Sep 26, 2020
    65
    Wiltshire
    Full Name:
    Richard Browne
    Hi,
    Looking to isolate the 458 spider fuel pumps to spin engine without it firing and looking in the manual it looks like there are two fuel pump relays and 3 fuses located in the passenger glove box named as follows:
    F10 - Fuel pump relay 1
    F21 - Fuel pimp relay 2
    F84 - Fuel pump relay 1

    Anyone know if this is correct and do I need to pull all 3 relays to stop the fuel pumps working?

    As a side note, anyone know why there are two fuses for Fuel pump relay 1?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    Why do you want to crank the motor without firing?

    Ray
     
  3. Richard Browne

    Richard Browne Karting

    Sep 26, 2020
    65
    Wiltshire
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    Richard Browne
    To bring the oil pressure up along all oil ways and coat the bores with thin layer of oil before firing due to 6 months of not being started.
     
  4. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Usually there's plenty of residual oil in the filter, oil pump and oil galleys. The 458 has a dry sump system also, so that helps because the oil has already been scavenged out of the pan and is always ready to go. So it's not exactly like a traditional motor, where the oil needs to be sucked clear up the sump from the oil pan.

    Also, most motors are designed to have little areas (for example around the cam lobes) which retain pools of oil, so that even if the motor has been sitting for a long time, there is always a reservoir of oil present. If you look closely at the 458 cylinder head, there are dividers of sorts around each of the cam lobes, which are there to keep a pool of oil directly under the cam lobe; every time the cam turns, the lobe dips into this oil. Even if your motor sits for a year, that oil isn't going anywhere. The only time lack of oil is an issue is when you build a motor and it's totally fresh and dry as a bone; however any good motor builder will usually use engine assembly lube (which is super sticky) and will also pre-fill those little reservoirs in the head in advance (that's what I do when building a motor). Also pre-fill the oil filter and pump, etc. I just rebuilt the motor in my truck and installed a higher performance oil pump; I had to back fill the oil pump via the main oil galley to prime it, even though the motor had plenty of engine assembly lube.

    As far as the cylinder walls, a little less oil there might actually help break some of the glaze on the walls, which usually helps the rings seat anyway. But my guess is there's at least some oil present in the piston lands where the oil control rings sit. If you've ever taken pistons out of a block, usually they have a film of oil on the bottom of the skirts, etc.

    The other thing you can do, if you're concerned, is switch to a better oil that clings to the surface of the motor a bit more. I use Motul and have found most of their oils to be very sticky. I use their 300 gear oil in my transmission and differential (on my Toyota) because it sticks to surfaces like nobody's business.

    Overall, I think the motor sitting for 6 days vs 6 months isn't going to make much difference with regard to residual oil on the internal surfaces. Feel free to disagree, but anyone who has pulled apart motors and seen how much oil there is - even on a motor which has been sitting around for a year or more - isn't going to be losing much sleep over pre-oiling before cranking the starter for 1 second before firing.

    Also, keep in mind, when the motor starts, it's only turning about 800 RPM's or something at idle (that's only 13 engine revolutions per second) and it's under no load; so the lateral force of the piston into the thrust side of the cylinder bore is very low as compared to when the motor is attempting to accelerate your car and/or when the motor is turning 9000 RPM's or turning 3000-4000 RPM's for 45 minutes traveling down the freeway.

    Myself, I think just changing your oil at 2500 miles vs 10,000+ would be a much more effect means of reducing engine wear. But again, feel free to disagree :)

    Ray
     
  5. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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  6. Art138

    Art138 Formula 3
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    Nov 22, 2007
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    You should also be able to push the gas pedal to the full open position (floored) in neutral where the motor will turn at starter speed.
     
  7. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    That's cool. Never heard of that before.

    Ray
     
  8. Richard Browne

    Richard Browne Karting

    Sep 26, 2020
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    Richard Browne
    I don’t understand this, can you explain please?
     
  9. Art138

    Art138 Formula 3
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    Let me try it on my Pista, worked on my Scud.
     
  10. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    That's interesting. Maybe something related to having to depress the brake pedal to start maybe or some feature to help clear out a flooded engine sort of situation perhaps?

    Ray
     
  11. Richard Browne

    Richard Browne Karting

    Sep 26, 2020
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    What is this Ray?....the engine will turn on the starter motor without firing if you do this?
     
  12. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Yeah, that's what we are trying to figure out (see above).

    Ray
     
  13. Richard Browne

    Richard Browne Karting

    Sep 26, 2020
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    Wow!
    Surely that would be listed in the manual? I can’t remember seeing that though have not read front to back.
     
  14. Richard Browne

    Richard Browne Karting

    Sep 26, 2020
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    Richard Browne
    That would be really interesting to know, please let me know what you find out and I will try with my 458 Spider. Thank you.
     
  15. Art138

    Art138 Formula 3
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    I just tried on my Pista and the procedure does not work (priming). Does work on my GT with the clutch depressed and gas pedal to the floor.
     
  16. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2006
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    What is the procedure exactly please?
    Put gas pedal to floor, then push start button? Hold start button continuously while cranking?
    Confused.
    Thanks.
     
  17. Richard Browne

    Richard Browne Karting

    Sep 26, 2020
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    Does this only work with manual cars...not the 458?
     
  18. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    I've read the 458 manual 3 times cover to cover and never seen anything about it either.

    Ray
     
  19. Richard Browne

    Richard Browne Karting

    Sep 26, 2020
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    Richard Browne
    What was the actual procedure that you used please?
     
  20. Art138

    Art138 Formula 3
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    I don’t believe the procedure will work with our cars that have launch control. On my GT, floor the gas pedal with clutch engaged and push starter button and the motor turns on starter power but will not start. On the Pista this morning I put it in neutral and pushed the gas pedal against the stop,but it started. I do agree with the other responses that there is enough residual oil in the system for a safe start after an oil change.
     

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