812 VS Rumors | Page 226 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    Maximum goo
     
  2. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    With the announcement of Ferrari fielding a Hypercar in endurance racing, it would be logical that the next limited edition hypercar will be based on the race car, so unfortunately probably not a V-12.

    Would be great if the use this V-12 one last time in a mid-engine car. They can dust off the LaF tooling and do a limited run of a non-hybrid, lightweight version.

    Yes, bravo. It’s been—and still is—fun!
     
  3. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2017
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    Strange comment. Does that mean you disagree with my conclusion? There are dozens of people posting on this thread, including many high-level Ferrari luminaries, all of whom are impressive and possessing of formidable intellectual heft and knowledge. Yet you, somehow presume my comment was sarcastic and directed to you, no less. That’s odd.
     
  4. Newjoint

    Newjoint Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2016
    1,066
    I agree- take the LaF tub- use the 812VS V-12 in it, you can alter the exterior skin of the LaF a bit(but not too,or is it Goo? much) and give us a peri3000 pound standard production mid engine car before the V12 dies.
    I couldn’t care less if they sold 10000 or more of them. I’d buy it. It would be keeper for the ages. Ferraris gift to those of us who were too young or unable to afford a TR, BB or F50 at the time.


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  5. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
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    Olivier
    You can admit your sentence could easily have been sarcastic in the way you wrote it . I admit that seeing sarcasm everyday everywhere makes me forget sometimes people are just sincere and not sarcastic

    I asked about me because of the the two posts above yours. I asked a question and it triggered some soft sarcasm. I asked if you were referring to it.
     
  6. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    Mar 22, 2013
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    Oh absolutely! That would be so completely awesome. I would not be mad even if they made me choose between spyder and coupe. It would not make me mad if it renders my 812 SF less valuable. As you said, make 10,000 or 20,000, I don’t mind. Maybe I would buy 2!

    Heck, I wouldn’t be mad if they only made a few available to the top clients where I will never be counted. Just make the darn thing and let me look at it!


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  7. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Thank you. Not necessary, but thanks all the same.
     
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  8. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    I couldn't agree with your more. However, at this level and price, ownership is ultimately about exclusivity. In that regard, the one to own is the Aperta and I dislike open tops. Most of either will just be queens and deemed too expensive to put many miles on (if any) which is ironic given the performance nature of the releases. A familiar story.
     
  9. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    They will produce two differents cars I presume.
    The Le Mans hypercar road car as a very limited series ( ala 250 LM).
    And the usual halo car with the new V12.
    The Toyota hypercar is a near LMP1 car and Ferrari can’t do compromises with their hypercar if they want to be competitive against the GR.
     
  10. ilcapodizurigo

    ilcapodizurigo Karting

    Oct 16, 2019
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    John Meier
    #5635 ilcapodizurigo, Mar 21, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
    I would not say that the aperta is the one to own. I personally believe history overrules exclusivity in this spectrum. As I gave reason for why coupe over aperta in post #5597. As we already are addressing the exclusivity, look at the difference between Monza SP1 & SP2. Sure, slightly different that buyers were able to select what seating they would prefer - however, of the total 499 that will be built I’d guess that only 150 of them will be monoposto SP1. Is the SP1 now the one to own? Sure the LaF Aperta is more limited, is it more exclusive than the LaF - well yes, from a strict numbering perspective (210 vs. 499) but in terms of the ‘one to own’, not sure... 458 Speciale versus the Speciale Aperta well yes obv. the Aperta because the regular Speciale was far away from being limited (499 vs. 3’000) and the same goes for all the other modern V8s for that matter (16M vs. Scud, Pista vs. Pista Spider); btw. although Pista Spiders were allocated by the factory through CRM Modis it does not count as a limited edition weirdly enough (1’000 Pista Spider vs. 3’800 Pista Coupe)... So again in Ferrari terms the Aperta has usually been the one to own because the coupe was the non-limited other variant. In this case, where pricing will be very similar and units built only vary slightly I believe the coupe will be the one to own. Let us assume the MSRP for the coupe will run at USD $500k and aperta USD $535k. What does everyone think of the first ones hitting the market? Will we see exponential hits like the first TDFs? USD 1mn +?
     
  11. JagShergill

    JagShergill Formula 3

    Dec 31, 2014
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    Never too much Goo!
     
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  12. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    You’re going to have to get a license plate that says, “V12GOO.”
     
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  13. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
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    Interesting question. Perhaps a comparison from the past might help us figure this out...

    Let’s look at 250 SWB Berlinetta vs 250 California Spider
    I think there were 164 Berlinettas made if I am not mistaken, 73 Alloy and 91 Steel (perhaps Mr Massini will kill me for having the wrong totals)
    There were 105 California Spiders, 56 SWB and 49 LWB (again apologies if my totals are a little off)

    Which one is the more valuable? Again the SWB Berlinetta is the racecar here, strong mechanical similarities between the two cars, the total production proportions are broadly the same as with the two 812VS(open car is two thirds of the coupe)...Admittedly (1) there is a price gap between SWB Spider and LWB Spider, but they are both more valuable than a Berlinetta (2) the LWB Spider pre-dates the 250 SWB Berlinetta (3) Alloy Berlinettas are much more valuable than Steel cars

    However regardless of how you look at it the open car is more valuable than the coupe. Even if you compare the two extremes, i.e. an Alloy Berlinetta (73 cars) with a SWB California (56 cars) the open car is worth more (probably 30-50% more). And we are talking about two cars with big differences in track performance, which will not be the case with the two cars about to be launched next month...

    For what it’s worth I would much prefer to own a SWB Berlinetta (I wish) than a SWB Spider, but in terms of value...




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  14. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
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    This choice is very different. SP1 is closer to the original but also a pretty lonely proposition if you plan to enjoy the car with your partner etc. The split in numbers was determined by demand which means that unless demand changes dramatically, i.e. more people value a more accurate re-imagining of the original Monza vs the ability to enjoy the car with someone else, the price differential will be zero. I would in fact argue that since the single seat configuration is the configuration of the “Ferrari purist” (and those of us who are a little older and more keen to appreciate these historical aspects), if you were to offer the car in the secondhand market to the less informed buying public who just want a really cool and rare car to drive, the proportion of people who go for the two seater will be way higher. My personal expectation is that the SP2 will be more valuable and certainly more liquid than the SP1.
    These are really fun questions to ask though...!


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  15. Maximus1977

    Maximus1977 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2016
    324
    Yes, correct. I have my Challenge for racing on any track. Unfortunately that doesn’t have a screaming V12; hence the appeal.
    But I see your point. The 812VS is not designed to be the fastest on the track. Just perhaps the most fun on the street.
     
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  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    #5641 Marcel Massini, Mar 21, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
    @George330:
    No killing planned, but:
    250 GT SWB Berlinetta: 74 alloy, 91 steel, total 165 units. Note: a few did not have "regular" Berlinetta body by Scaglietti.
    250 GT California Spider: 50 LWB and 56 SWB, total 106 units (incl. 1 RHD).
    Monza SP1 and SP2: Of the first 263 units built 77 are SP1 (29%) and 186 are SP2 (71%, like yours). Still in production.

    Please enjoy a wonderful Sunday.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  17. leopoldo

    leopoldo Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2013
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    mark1
    Do you think that after this VS the new front v12 coupe could have the same technology/ engine ( but with higher weight ) ? GPF will not be enough for the new pollution rules? Thanks
     
  18. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058
    This is the saddest part, and I hope that the melbres here present will ride with it as often as possible. A Ferrari is the wealth of emotions, shared memories, road trips with friends, solitary runs at nightfall in the middle of summer ...
    It is not designed to collect dust in a garage.
    I have done more than 50,000 km with my 355 Challenge and several times the most beautiful and legendary circuits in Italy. Already 25,000 kms with my F 12 in 3 years and I hope as much with the future Aston Vantage GT8.
    I am rich in my emotions, my passion, sharing and memories and it doesn't matter if at the end of my life my cars are worth nothing!
    I don't want to die rich, that would be a failure !!! we have never seen a safe following a hearse ...
    My only regret, not being able to acquire an F 12 tdf and travel 20,000 kilometers per year!
    But I am already very happy with what my passion has allowed me to accomplish.
    Drive the 812 VS, as often as possible, you are fatal every second.
     
  19. TAM340R

    TAM340R Karting

    Jul 26, 2015
    233
    The targa roof being manual in order to really enjoy on the street it strongly depends on the way to put the targa roof on...
    I would not like to leave unattended an open car even for a short time...
    I am sure that Ferrari will come with a relative fast way to fix the roof

    tam
     
  20. ilcapodizurigo

    ilcapodizurigo Karting

    Oct 16, 2019
    192
    Los Angeles
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    John Meier
    Dear Mr. Massini,

    What is your opinion: Would you prefer to own the 812VS Coupe or 812VS Aperta and which one, if in truth it’ll be the last 6.5L N/A V12, will be the more important car from a historians perspective?

    Best regards & happy Sunday,
    John
     
  21. iohead

    iohead Karting

    Feb 19, 2013
    142
    I sure hope they do have a roof that's easy and quick to remove or install.

    It is certainly possible to create such a roof. The nicest removable roof I can think of is the carbon hardtop in the Pagani Huayra Roadster BC. Because:
    • It is made of carbon fiber and weighs next to nothing. By seat-of-the-pants measurement, I'd say maybe 2kg, if even that.
    • It is single piece, so you don't have to fiddle with two pieces or think about which one goes first, and when installed, there is no seam that would be there in the case of two pieces.
    • It is dead simple to install or remove. To remove, turn two little levers next to the sun visors 90 degrees, and you can lift the roof at the front and slide it out. To install, line up two pins at the rear of the roof with corresponding holes in the monocoque, slide it in, and turn the levers 90 degrees back. It's a one-person job that takes like 15 seconds, not a minute or few.
    • There is also glass version of the roof but that's heavier but otherwise has the same process. Because of its weight, whether it's a one-person job depends on said person.
    The only downside of the Pagani roof is that you can't take it with you in the car, but that's to do with the near absence of useful storage space in the car.

    If Ferrari has a super lightweight single-piece roof that's as easy to install and fits in the trunk, that would be awesome for both functionality and looks.
     
  22. NeilF8888

    NeilF8888 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2005
    1,147
    Miami Beach
    I was told it will fit in the trunk, but don’t know if it is a one piece or two pieces,


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  23. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Apr 2, 2005
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