812 VS Rumors | Page 222 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    Those numbers for the engine start to approach the almost racing spec Cosworth V12 in the Valkyrie and the Murray car.
     
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  2. Garretto

    Garretto F1 Rookie

    Sep 3, 2003
    4,922
    Bilbao, Spain
    Full Name:
    Rodolfo Di Pietro
    BiC pen costing a few cents...
     
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  3. Garretto

    Garretto F1 Rookie

    Sep 3, 2003
    4,922
    Bilbao, Spain
    Full Name:
    Rodolfo Di Pietro
    Frank seems to be a nice chap, but... the F430 being one of my least favorite F-designs and a couple of recent vids I've seen of him drawing... OMG... he better stay away!
     
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  4. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228

    If the Pagani Huayra R with "only" 6 liters hit 850hp at "only" 9000rpm I expect easily 870-880hp from a new gen v6.5l v12 signed by Ferrari...
     
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  5. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,860
    I would also like to know the engine rebuild timeframes for these engines. I believe the Ferrari engines are designed to last considerably longer before a full rebuild is required- while this is likely going to trouble 99% of owners, I think its worth noting when discussing how one engine can hit one RPM limit but perhaps has a (maybe much?) shorter life than the other. Remember Enzo Ferrari won many races by simply out lasting the competition.

    I would like to add while I can understand not every design is to everyone’s tastes, I don’t think you can credibly say Manzoni is lacking talent. He and his team have done some really memorable and beautiful cars- just off the top of my mind and apologies if I have this wrong: LaFerrari, TDF, Pista, F8, Roma, and finally, Monza- all very beautiful- and wow, can you imagine to have designed one of these? He and his team have done all these cars in not too long a period of time. I can’t imagine the pressure, yet they deliver every time. I can’t wait to see what they’ve come up with.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  6. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Engineered and built by Mercedes's HWA racing subsidiary and AMG collaborator, the naturally aspirated 6.0-liter V-12 shrieks to 9000 rpm and on the way makes 838 horsepower at 8250 rpm and 553 pound-feet of torque at 5500 rpm.

    Sadly, there's also no way for the R's naturally aspirated V-12 to meet today's emissions standards, which is why the Huayra R won't be street legal.

    from:
    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35874232/pagani-huayra-r-revealed/

    not apples to apples, it would be far less than 800HP if had full emissions including GPF...

    something else to consider, being a race engine it probably does not have a long duty cycle like a street car must have (i.e. time between rebuilds)....that means it would have less power if the engine internals had to have the durability of a street car...
     
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  7. F140C

    F140C Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2016
    1,574
    Piedmont
    Full Name:
    Marco
    Let's say it would be insane for a sports car that needs to be street-legal (so it has to comply with strict emissions' regulations) and has to provide more longevity than a race car engine, as @JTSE30 pointed out.
     
  8. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Ferrari's FXXK EVO has 860PS (848HP), 6.3L, no emissions equipment, race build...and 9250 red line...

    race build...
     
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  9. wrs

    wrs F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 11, 2015
    11,921
    Lakeway, Texas
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    William
    Sounds though like this car is just supposed to be looked at and not driven but simply enjoyed for it's cost and specs. I see Ricardo Vega's 599 GTO Aperta sitting in the showroom with 100 miles on it regularly. It's for sale now apparently but while I love the car, you couldn't drive it without losing $500,000 so it's not for me.
     
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  10. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
    4,781
    CT
    #5535 BJK, Mar 18, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
    From same C&D article: This is no fragile race engine; Pagani promises 6,200 miles between top-end overhauls to replace valves and valve springs.
    Track only - 6,200 miles is a LOT of laps ;) Don't race engines usually go by time/hours? (just boats?)
    .
     
  11. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    at 120mph that is 51 hours

    at 60mph that is 103 hours

    I think that is about average or even below average:
    https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2020/motorsports/porsche-911-gt3-cup-new-model-season-2021-premiere-23150.html
    "A major overhaul is due after 120 hours of racing"

    F1 engines designed for 1326 miles
    https://f1chronicle.com/how-long-do-f1-engines-last/

    And Ferrari TDF is at least 50,000 miles expected...and that's only for checking valve lash adjustment for the solid lifters (lash adjustment)
     
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  12. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
    4,781
    CT
    #5537 BJK, Mar 18, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
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  13. Maximus1977

    Maximus1977 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2016
    324
    Do a Google search on 599XX sound.... Forget about angels, this is the God of Hellfire screaming!
    Had the pleasure to see it upclose in action on the track and pit. Best motoring sound I ever heard; beating also attending F1 cars and FXXK Evo's!
     
  14. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2008
    1,024
    Hamburg, Germany
    Not sure why we are discussing Paganis here. Mercedes is not exactly known for its V12s. They stuffed turbos into a V12 for Pagani (back in 2010-2011 timeframe when there was no regulatory need to do so) and produced less HP than the Ferrari NA V12. Using an engine in a Pagani as a yardstick for what a Ferrari engine can and cannot do is a joke imho.
     
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  15. j09333

    j09333 Formula 3

    May 7, 2004
    1,142
    Vs spider 500 or so for TOP client mainly.
    Unlike pista when TOP could have both coupe and spider, this time TOP can not have both.
    This is what I heard.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  16. Maximus1977

    Maximus1977 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2016
    324
    Agreed.
    Considering the asking price of that Pagani it should have a much more sophisticated NA V12 with a major power upgrade.
    This looks like a sooped up 599 engine; build 10 years ago.
    Back to our screaming 10,000rpm master piece with no engine rebuild this side of 50,000miles!
     
  17. JagShergill

    JagShergill Formula 3

    Dec 31, 2014
    1,661
    England
    Full Name:
    Jag shergill
    Don’t apologize - just Improve!
     
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  18. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
    1,369
    Full Name:
    T
    Posts like this suggest that the 10k redline is now a certainty. Is it?
     
  19. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2006
    16,110
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    Goo!
     
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  20. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    The vents on the rear haunches of the 812 were for letting the air flow through without going over the quarter panel. The gap behind the wheel arch at the rear was for venting the wheel well. Recall that most of the mules have the the top vents tapped over. If the rumor above is true and the vent at the top arch is now multiple vents behind the arch (a la 288 GTO) then the rear vent opening should be gone with the new rear design.

    I also would not doubt Ferrari's prowess at hitting any mark in engine design. Its an easy bet that at any time there are one or two running follow-on versions of engine design when a new one hits production. As far as longevity, if it has solid lifters like the F12TdF then the biggest concern is start-up damage from going dry in storage vice any wear from revving.
     
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  21. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
    1,342
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    George
    Correct. No one can buy both


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  22. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2008
    1,024
    Hamburg, Germany
    Agreed or else gone more cutting edge with a LaFerrari type solution at their price point. The V12 Turbo route was such a let down and a cop out. I think Pagani should have switched their engine provider to someone like Coswort when Mercedes stopped providing NA V12s. Anyways, enough above Paganis, let's switch focus to the real V12 masters ;-)
     
  23. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228

    Ah, I didn't know it wasn't street legal
     
  24. ohno

    ohno Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2009
    341
    But that's pure speculation...
     
  25. Maximus1977

    Maximus1977 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2016
    324
    Nothing is 100% certain yet it seems to be confimred by multiple people in the know....
     

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