Street registered 458 Challenge | FerrariChat

Street registered 458 Challenge

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by Col. Kurtz, Feb 16, 2021.

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  1. Col. Kurtz

    Col. Kurtz Formula Junior

    Jun 20, 2013
    273
    New England
    Full Name:
    Walter E.
    Hi guys,

    Looking for some advice and info please.

    Just wondering if anyone has an idea on what a 458 street registered Challenge is worth in the USA? About 10k track miles, 2 seats, no crashes on track, fully Challenge kitted and (somehow) no mods for street registration. That is, not cats, rolling windows, regular seat belts, etc.

    I know they're worth about $150k for track use only, but with street reg?

    Also, can a typical Ferrari dealership service these if not track used?

    Cheers and thanks!
     
    SAFE4NOW likes this.
  2. Col. Kurtz

    Col. Kurtz Formula Junior

    Jun 20, 2013
    273
    New England
    Full Name:
    Walter E.
    Hi guys,

    I posted this question in the General section, but reckon it's best suited here. Please be patient as I'm new to the Challenge side of Ferraris.

    I'm looking for some advice please.

    Just wondering if anyone has any idea on what a 458 street registered Challenge is worth in the USA? About 10k track miles, 2 seats, no crashes, fully Challenge kitted and (somehow) no mods for street registration. That is, not cats, rolling windows, regular seat belts, etc.

    Also, can a typical Ferrari dealership service these if not used on track (i.e. lower level of wear and tear)?

    Cheers and thanks!
     
  3. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2004
    7,189
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    Joe
    I question (read doubt completely) the validity of the "street registered" part of this car and it shouldn't be considered to add any value to a typical 458c. So, related to the Challenge value; is the car serviced and does it include a complete history of that work? Last teardown? Evo kit? Any race competitive history or owners of note? No crashes as in it hasn't been balled up, or no paintwork or panels replaced ever? Livery (current and past)? What spares does it have? When were the fuel tanks replaced? There's a lot that goes into reasonable valuation on these cars so the details matter and make the difference of a $100k car and a $175k car.

    In terms of service, yes a typical Ferrari dealership can service them. Don't think that because the car isn't used competitively it will cost less than a conventional car - it will actually cost more as many parts are specialized and under more stress/wear due to the lack of tolerance and cushioning. And, how are you going to fuel it? What tires would you run? What roads would you drive it on? How are you going to park it (there's no parking break and they auto shift to "N" when turned off. Are you going to wear a helmet or plan on padding or even removing the cage? More than anything, why are you looking at a C vs a street car?
     
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  4. Col. Kurtz

    Col. Kurtz Formula Junior

    Jun 20, 2013
    273
    New England
    Full Name:
    Walter E.
    Great info. I found someone selling a street reg 458C and thought it may be worth the gamble for a year or two of fun, but it sounds like a headache and that I'd likely be in over my head. Thanks for taking the time to reply and offer the advice!
     
  5. MrGT3

    MrGT3 Rookie

    Mar 2, 2012
    10
    Agree with everything @JAM1 said. i have a 488c and would never try to road register it - it would be a complete pain in the ass on the road.

    eg no handbrake, cant leave in gear(automatically goes to neutral when shut off), dry break fuel so no filling at a station, v difficult to get into & out of ( no hope in a parking lot), super low all round ( wont clear anything on the road not even minor bumps or potholes), seats block all side and most rear vision for changing lanes, all front/ rear crash protection is different, no locks ( neither doors, ignition or hoods), wheels are special so no road tires fit, hubs are race so no road rims will likely fit, brakes are useless untill upto temp( and to get to temp u need to smash them repeatedly - would be sort of dangerous on the road without temp), running costs are worse then road car (eg cost of brakes is expensive and pointless for road use), engine and gearbox needs to come upto temp before use, cooling system insufficient for road ( ie its setup for rapid forward movement/airflow not sitting in traffic) etc etc etc.

    that said they are awesome cars and it would be a hell of an experience driving one down the street for the looks u’ll get; you will just also be glad when its over.


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  6. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    May 20, 2003
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    Ira Schwartz
    Titling it without a street car VIN, much less registering and then getting tags, will be VERY difficult in the US, and as noted above, would result in an almost unusable street car. It'd also be unsafe (think TBI when you have an accident and hit your head on the roll cage), no insurance company will want to insure it (without which many states will not issues tags), and even with tags it'd still violate federal laws and those of virtually every state if street-driven- getting tags does not make a car legal to drive on the street.
     
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  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,407
    Southlake, TX
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    Someone would have to search better than me, but Challenge cars since 355 don't have a VIN, but we had a user that had a 458 C (possible 430 C) that accidentally got street paperwork etc and was eligible to be street registered (as long as they didn't physically inspect the VIN).

    It was awhile ago when they first came out, user was pretty active around here, he was also into those half million dollar trophy trucks etc.
     
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  8. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    Hmmm. My 458 challenge has a vin but no title, which I’d think is the critical component of getting a car registered. I suppose with a lax state or inspector anything’s possible though.

    Candidly I’ve driven my car to nearby shows/meets on a dealer tag and it’s a blast to experience, as visceral as I’d imagine a 60s 250 GTO or swb would be, but trying to use one of them as a quasi-normal street car would be absurd.
     
  9. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    I didn't know that, I've always heard 360+ Challenge cars didn't have a VIN, maybe they started to import easier?
     
  10. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    Not sure. I guess I heard that about the 360s at one point but I’ve never owned one to know. Here’s what’s on a 458c (not my car bc I don’t feel like walking to the shop in 18” of snow!). I also don’t know if this constitutes a legal vin but it’s got the proper number of digits and is displayed similarly.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. GLENN@TEAM AI

    GLENN@TEAM AI Karting
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    Jun 8, 2018
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    Glenn Butler
    Every challenge car has a VIN! Just because Ferrari sold them on a Bill of Sale and not street legal doesn't mean they don't have a VIN. And per the OP's first post, a 458 Challenge IS NOT a 150k car now, unless it is a true unicorn. They can be bought for much less.
     
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  12. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    As noted above, all production cars (including Challenge cars) have a 17-digit VIN, but not necessarily one that denotes a car built to the legal standards that prevail in the country to which it is delivered.
    If your VIN isn’t for a street legal car it’ll be very tough to obtain a title. Such cars are normally sold on a Bill of Sale only.
    I’ve driven 348 & 355 CH cars on the street, and even they are a “hair shirt” experience just to/from the track- definitely not for everyone, and not something to be done on a regular basis. I imagine a 458 CH would be ridiculous on the street- again, even if you could obtain a title, tags and insurance.
     
  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    OK, I think the part I was confusing was they come with a VIN, but not a title, which would be required to street register. Maybe that car years about out of Arizona or wherever accidentally got a title.
     
  14. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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  15. FerrariCognoscenti

    FerrariCognoscenti Formula 3

    Jan 19, 2021
    2,429
    East Coast
    Look into Montana registration. Probably the most lax state in the country for registering specialty cars with no scrutiny whatsoever of the car.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. stokpro

    stokpro F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jun 25, 2003
    4,383
    Himalayas
    one could run steel brakes as they don't require nearly as much heat as the ccmb's to work. also, one could run spec rain tires on oem wheels for the street instead of slicks.

    oh man i'd love to try blasting between the dealer and my shop but with poorly maintained streets with massive potholes not to mention steep driveways i could see bending a wheel or tearing off my carbon front bumper in the process which would make it an expensive couple mile outing. doh!
     
  17. deimh

    deimh Karting

    Sep 4, 2016
    69
    UK
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    David
    I must disagree with most comments here.

    I have a 360CH and 430CH, both road registered in the UK and they are awesome fun on the road! They are hot, loud and frightening - just what a supercar is supposed to be.

    I also have a 458CH and intend to get that road registered too down the line.

    People love the 360 Challenge Stradale for being a bit wild relative to "normal" Ferrari's that have become too civilised and tame - and a Challenge car just takes it a step further...

    But yes, if you prefer listening to your favourite songs over bluetooth as opposed to exhaust roar then this is not for you!
     
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  18. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    Very different situation in the US as regards titling, tagging and insuring.
     
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  19. deimh

    deimh Karting

    Sep 4, 2016
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    Not so sure - I imported the 430CH from the USA and it came with a State of Washington Title!

    I think that often "myths" become reality from just being repeated over and over...
     
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  20. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    In the unlikely event that you get a title that does not necessarily mean that you can get tags, and having tags does not necessarily make a car legal for street use. I realize that sounds counter-intuitive, but I've owned Challenge cars and have practiced law in the US for 45 years, so take my word for it. It's further complicated by the fact that you're dealing with both federal laws and those of 50 different states (plus DC).
    And in any case you'll want (and in most US states need) liability insurance, which most companies will be reluctant to issue for race cars. Okay, I'm done.
     
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  21. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    In my mind the only real way to do it would to have a normal street example and share tags..it will work until you crash it!!

    They are not, nor will ever ne "legal for road use"...
     
  22. naparsei

    naparsei Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2005
    294
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    Alex
    I thought the rule of thumb (and I could be wrong) is that if Ferrari built it, it has a VIN, and if Michelotto built it, it has a serial number.
     
  23. deimh

    deimh Karting

    Sep 4, 2016
    69
    UK
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    David
    All Challenge cars have a VIN - I have no idea where people get the idea they don't have one!

    And it is not Ferrari who decide whether they can be legally registered or not - despite selling them with that "guidance". All countries make their own laws on what is required for a car to get road-registered, independently of what Ferrari might prefer.

    My road registered 360 and 430 Challenge cars are real Challenge cars and not some "normal street examples and/or share tags".

    The 360 is one of 200 or so made and the 430 one of less than 150 made, which are way less than the number of Challenge Stradale and Scud. In fact 20x or 30x more SC and Scuds were made!

    i think that in time people will cotton onto how rare and cool these Challenge cars are and their values will rocket - just think the value and joy owning of a proper 1965 Shelby GT350 Mustang versus the normal Mustang....
     
  24. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    My back hurts just reading this thread LOL
     
  25. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    So true!!
    Over my 50 years of driving and in the car industry I had more then my share of "non road worthy" cars on the street including using construction "in transit" plates.
    Far as legal I am glad I never got in an accident LOL

    :)
     

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