Ferrari has lost 35% of its fan base since 2010

Don't they just send cars when they're ordered? Maybe US sales down or not higher proportionately to other markets?

 

I actually wrote an essay related to this last spring for a research writing class I took for my undergraduate degree. Maybe some of you would find it interesting. I'm attaching the full paper as a pdf but here's the thesis:
I would propose that the appeal of Formula One would be greatly enhanced by recognizing the forces of youth, brand and geography. Namely, a young American making a winning comeback for Ferrari would yield the ultimate excitement around the sport for existing fans young and old, the greatest increase in viewership among youth and American audiences.

 

and you should see the place that he has lunch... amazing

 

I searched for this article and can't find it. Can someone post it?

 

Very good essay! I also agree with regards to an American driving and winning in F1, in my estimation , its not going to happen. An American doing so would for sure increase F1s popularity and excitement, like you said, they are brought up racing on very different tracks . with very different race cars.

Thank you

 

In my opinion... the article is kind of silly.

There are a couple of factors that seem to be ignored and a couple of things people think that are important but just aren't.

F1. Honestly... few care. Those that can afford a new ferrari are not buying it because of F1... those that can but buy another brand isn't because they have greater f1 success... FOR EXAMPLE.... What supercar does mercedes make... yup... kind of maybe one. Mclaren? Ohh ya... because they have so many podiums... Lamborghini? Not on the grid... Porsche Not on the grid. Sorry guys the f1 case doesn't hold water.


In my opinion its this:

Porsche market is insane. Porsche has sucked up alot of the attention. The cars under 200k are a massive hit. There was a lot of prosperity in the last 4 years and people could buy these cars. Lots and lots of buyers. I mean porsche sold more GTx 911s than regular 911s. And they sell for MSRP or more

Then you have had the entry of Mclaren... I mean just the entry of mclaren road cars is going to take up a piece of the pie.

Then you have lamborghini... which as started to build excellent vehicles. Infact... they are probably even better than Ferraris. But they build alot of them. Lamborghini has exploded in popularity... because they actually build a competent car now. The Murci was not competent. The gallardo was the beginning of competency.



Other manufactures building great cars and entering the market is the main reason ferraris luster has become diminished. Many will blame it on the stupid games the dealers play... but the reality of that is... they could play those games because they were the only game around. Now... there are many many options... So the way of doing business has had to change.

 

Sorry but they need to forget this green crap and remember its entertainment. I'm not against "green" but its like saying we have to remove all natural grass from Augusta for the Masters because it uses too much water. Its so insignificant its not helping anyone while hurting what people love about the sport.

Give us 20,000 RPM monsters running on normal gas that blow up several times a week.

 

Considering how many cars Ferrari produces, it's very humorous to read that Lamborghini builds alot of cars.

The competency of the pre-Audi cars (the later Countach and the whole run of Diablos) were far above the production variants of Ferrari during the same period. But when they were only building 300 cars per year, I get that most were not fortunate enough to really get to know them. They didn't have crappy paint, sticky buttons, exploding differentials, reprehensible valve materials, melting exhaust manifolds....etc.

I agree that the Murcielago was not a great first effort by Audi, but I would lump the Gallardo in the same category. They sold alot of them because they were inexpensive (compared to previous Lamborghinis) and you didn't have to kiss a dealer's ass to get one.

Will agree the Huracan and the improvements made year-to-year is a home run.

 

This is why I just purchased tickets to Road America's 3 day Vintage weekend. I long for the Red Mist. Just sayin'.

 

Stockcar.????

 

I know this pisses folks off because they say, "get over it..." but F1 has gone down since the sound of the cars are gone and they are doing exactly what ginobbi512 is saying. Interestingly enough, every commercial that has racing as it's premise uses the old F1 twin turbo sound not crap from the present. My point is this is when F1 truly starting to go down. I think when schumi went to MB it was like your uncle marrying a different aunt in the family, which didn't help.

 

Interesting debate. Most of it is based on a completely flawed premise. I hate to use the term Fake News but:

- Much as I respect Ross’s many informed posts, there is no report saying Ferrari has lost 35% of its fan base since 2010. It just doesn’t exist. The title of this thread is eye catching, worthy of a fine tabloid (I’m a journalist myself) and wrong.

- The article in question on Fchat quotes an analysis on a UK insurance sales website as its only source.

- Going to that website: they say they have used Google Trends to analyse UK search data over the last 10 years.

So, at the very best, all these stats could tell us is the % change in people in the UK using Google to search for each car brand from its peak over the last 10 years. Period.

No way that could ever come close to concluding that “Ferrari has lost 35% of its fan base” (globally).

Dealing now with the % delta in searches for car brands in the UK (that’s all we have here). There are many factors that could affect this number, the most pertinent possibly being smartphone penetration, as smartphones now account for more than 50% of UK search. And the volume of search itself has risen by an unknown but exponential number since 2010. Smartphone penetration has risen from 20% in 2009 to 85% in 2019 (Deloitte stats).

So in 2010, fewer, but richer people had smartphones to search on the move; people more likely to search for Ferraris in other words.

Other stats in the insurance site report also indicate a drop in searches may be completely unrelated to brand value, or brand performance. For example Jaguar has risen 12% and Audi and BMW have dropped by similar figures. It doesn’t take an oracle to point out that has no relationship with these brands’ performance or brand lustre over the last 10 years.

I’m not saying Ferrari hasn’t lost its lustre; I’m just saying this research is so vague as to be irrelevant.

I was interested to see Lamborghini was a big winner in the same research, and empirically I would agree that many young people would find the Lamborghini brand sexier than Ferrari than 10 years ago.

But if you buy into that argument, you can’t use Ferrari’s F1 performance as a cause, as Lamborghini doesn’t race.

 

I'm sorry. I didn't mean it as lamborghini is mass producing cars and way too many etc... I didn't mean it that way.

I was trying to point out that prior to say 2005... Lamborghini was building so few cars it never ate into the market share if cars and buyers.

But now... They build many great cars and it sucks up some of the buyers or luster because they are building more than a handful a year. Prior to all of this they were a very very very small manufacturer. And now they are just a small manufacturer. Lol.

On a separate note another thing I forgot to point out is if we're talking about luster Bugatti has taken some of the luster as well as Pagani because if it's not sales were talking about and just cache well those cars have a lot of cache and those have replaced the Ferrari on your bedroom wall

 

I suspect Ferrari may be suffering a similar problem as Harley Davidson. It's core customer base (Boomers) are getting older, and there are a lot of competing products out there. This is why, like it or not, Ferrari needs a SUV. Porsche's experience with the Cayenne was many buyers were younger first-time customers.

 

Bingo.

Yup

The old guard is dying off. And even if they weren't it's such a small pool of buyers. Just like manual transmissions.

Manuals are great. But I think even porsche has a less than 10% take rate.

The world has changed.

 

For the 991.2 GT3, the manual rate was close to 70%

And this doesn't count "R" and Touring, which are all manuals...props to Porsche for listening.

 

Aaaaaaand there will be no Ferraris at Sebring this year.

 

Thank you Rob, I don't see any fall off in the brand in the U.S. If you follow used car sales, Fcars are flying off the shelf during the pandemic. It's actually been amazing to watch a batch of 246 Dinos and 308s in every flavor fly out of inventory! And at the same time a huge new batch of 512bbi come on to the scene hoping to make a kill.

 

It's the rarity and unique qualities that folks like about the Bugatti and Pagani. Ferrari is making many of multi models. However, the 812s flew off the line to customers. Are we taking a wrong turn on this conversation? I remember a thread about this topic last year or so. Either way, I love the brand. I buy a few years old on the newers and I won't let go of my '98 355.

 

Yeah.. I was going to say.. my interest started to dwindle when they did away with the manuals.. I just can't help it, I love the manual transmissions, they really are the best (for some of us/in my opinion). The demand and pricing for older ones with manuals illustrates this.

 

Charles will bring some character back to the driver lineup

 

Yup. Well the 911 r doesn't really count as it was only offered as a manual and then u have the limited numbers. Sweet car none the less...


It was my understanding that the 70% number included tourings... BUT... I can totally be wrong and am welcome being corrected.


But none the less. Manuals are slower and in the case of the new gt3 significantly slower to 60. I think it's half a second slower. So it's hard to be a performance brand and develop every inch of the car and then put in a compromised transmission.

But for the manual guys out there as an off topic side bar... My dream ferrari they would build would be a 250 testarossa style car. No roof. 3-4 maybe 5 liter naturally aspirated v12 with a 9k rpm red line. 500-600hp. Light weight great sound. Stunning looks. Just a fun car to experience.


Sort of like a gt3 is.


Also I'd like to point out the reason the gt3 manual exists etc... Is because the cayenne and taycan etc... Exist.

 

No more manuals.

No more beautiful sounding V8.

Can't really say the new cars are gorgeous to look at. Other than the Monza and now the Roma, they are all challenging to love. I am warming up to the F8. The SF90 and 812 are still in the trying too hard category.

F1 team being a mess.

No more performance advantage vs 4 doors and SUV cars.

MSRP going sky high while production not limited.

New models every 6 months.

3 or 4x the number of competitors compared to the 90s.

Probably a lot of new buyers turned away by the Ferrari politics.

It's funny bc they still manage to captivate my heart with a car like the Monza so all is not lost. Looking forward to seeing the new LaFerrari, new Icona and the 812 GTO.

 

Some good stuff here as usual.....OK, here we go

On the 911R, the fact that they sold all of them quickly and the car still carrying a premium points to the demand....if they had offered that same car with a single disk clutch F1, do they even sell 10 of them? THAT would be a compromised transmission.

Porsche Brass counted on 30% manual orders, so whether it is 60 or 70% it was very strong.

Yeah, a little slower to 60....but who cares? Do you feel your race-engine equipped CGT has a compromised transmission? No one else does.

And Ferrari can build a MT car because Portofinos, Lussos, and about a million 488s exist. Ferrari is no boutique manufacturer.