87 Testarossa - Has No ignition to spark plugs - *Both Banks* Need assistance please? | FerrariChat

87 Testarossa - Has No ignition to spark plugs - *Both Banks* Need assistance please?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Tom LI-NY, Mar 6, 2021.

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  1. Tom LI-NY

    Tom LI-NY Rookie

    Mar 6, 2021
    8
    Long Island NY
    Full Name:
    Tom Pinou
    Hi All,
    Looking for assistance please?
    My 87 Testarossa - Has No ignition to spark plugs - *Both Banks* ?

    Here are the specifics below I troubleshooted:

    1- With Ignition Key in "On" position... I confirmed 12 Volts going to *Both Banks* of Ignition coils
    2- But Upon "Cranking" ..
    =====>the "R/Side" .Ignition coil. will only Show a spark "1 time" out of the ignition Coil Wire (which feeds the Distributor)
    ====>the "L/Side" .Ignition coil. will only Show a spark "1 time" out of the ignition Coil Wire "Upon "releasing" the Ignition Key"

    (I have confirmed all this with a HEI Spark/Tester ..several times)

    Is this a Bad Crankshaft TDC Sensor 'or' Bad RPM sensor or BOTH?... (rear engine clutch/bell housing)

    I have never had a problem starting my car for over 20+ years. Car always ran great before this issue.
    I did order Both Sensors and I am waiting to receive the parts from California, hopefully soon?

    I can not think of anything else, since this is affecting both banks of the ignition system?
    Any help from all the expert "Ferrari Testarossa Masters" would be greatly appreciated!

    thank you very much in advance,
    Tom
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Mar 6, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
    [QUOTE="Tom LI-NY, post: 147776241, member: 248895"]...Is this a Bad Crankshaft TDC Sensor 'or' Bad RPM sensor or BOTH?... (rear engine clutch/bell housing)[/QUOTE]

    Yes, if either of the flywheel sensors fails = both banks will have no spark. Have you tried unplugging/inspecting/replugging the 4-pin round connector under the coolant expansion tank?

    Measuring the AC voltage between the two pins of each flywheel sensor during starter motor cranking should be:

    RPM sensor = ~ 2V AC

    TDC Sensor = ~0.2V AC

    if they are working, but, without the special 25-pin test breakout box, you'll need to do something special to make the measurement yet keep the sensor plugged in -- the "jumpers" I use to make the measurement at the 2-pin connector of the sensor:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    and in use:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Stylized waveforms that you would see during starter motor cranking using an oscilloscope if they are working:

    RPM Flywheel Sensor
    Image Unavailable, Please Login



    TDC Flywheel Sensor:
     

    Attached Files:

    vincenzo and turbo-joe like this.
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #3 Steve Magnusson, Mar 6, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
    INCREASE THE GD TIME ALLOWED FOR EDITING! ;) -- it took me a while to find all the pictures, and I was still trying to get them in the right places (PS image editing mixed in with text sucks!). Here's what the post above should be:

    [QUOTE="Tom LI-NY, post: 147776241, member: 248895"]...Is this a Bad Crankshaft TDC Sensor 'or' Bad RPM sensor or BOTH?... (rear engine clutch/bell housing)[/QUOTE]

    Yes, if either of the flywheel sensors fails = both banks will have no spark. Have you tried unplugging/inspecting/replugging the 4-pin round connector under the coolant expansion tank?

    Measuring the AC voltage between the two pins of each flywheel sensor during starter motor cranking should be:

    RPM sensor = ~2V AC

    TDC Sensor = ~0.2V AC

    if they are working, but, without the special 25-pin test breakout box, you'll need to do something special to make the measurement yet keep the sensor plugged in -- the "jumpers" I use at the 2-pin connector of the sensor that keeps it connected, but gives me a place to connect my multimeter probes:
    [​IMG]
    and in use:

    [​IMG]

    Stylized waveforms that you would see during starter motor cranking using an oscilloscope if they are working:

    RPM Flywheel Sensor:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    TDC Flywheel Sensor:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

     
  4. Tom LI-NY

    Tom LI-NY Rookie

    Mar 6, 2021
    8
    Long Island NY
    Full Name:
    Tom Pinou
    Hello Steve,
    Thank you very much for the prompt response and detailed information!!!

    You will be the “second” to know once I receive the parts, replace both TDC and RPM sensors and crank over the engine...

    Hopefully the parts will arrive this week?

    Get back to you soon!
    Best regards,
    Tom
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Don't forget to also unplug/replug the round 4-pin connector under the coolant expansion tank.
     
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  6. Tom LI-NY

    Tom LI-NY Rookie

    Mar 6, 2021
    8
    Long Island NY
    Full Name:
    Tom Pinou
    Yes thank you for that reminder!
    I almost forget!

    ..I will UN-plug and RE-plug the round 4-pin connector under the coolant expansion tank first.. ..(before I receive the sensor parts ordered)

    Keep you posted as I wait on parts delivery.. Tom
     
  7. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    #7 vincenzo, Mar 8, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
    Steve...

    Still waiting for your Testarossa Maintenance and diagnosis book. If you were to compile and organize the information you post it would be a hugely valuable resource. Print it in a spiral binding and sell it for a couple of hundred US. Sell a hundred or more copies here and make 20k! It need not be fancy, the content presents the value.

    If you add a few chapters of fluff (style, history etc) you could likely sell it through a publisher.

    Put me in line for book No.1.

    PS: I am sure that other folks here on FChat would happily let you use their posted photos etc (with permission) for additional help in your efforts.
     
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  8. Tom LI-NY

    Tom LI-NY Rookie

    Mar 6, 2021
    8
    Long Island NY
    Full Name:
    Tom Pinou
    Hi Steve,

    I’m still waiting on my TDC and RPM sensor on order... (hopefully soon)

    but per your recommendation, I did Un-plug and Re-plug the 4 in connector (under the reservoir) last night.

    My question is, “What does Un-plugging and Re-plugging do for you?” Is it simply just to reseat it in case there was an intermittent connection?

    I was just curious. thank you Tom
     
  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,867
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    somtimes there is little corrosion and when unplug und plug again it gets a little cleaner, may be use also WD40, and check if a wire is broken
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Yes, to rewipe the electrical contacts -- it can even fall out. It's in a near horizontal orientation, and has no locking feature to retain the two halves together other than a friction rubber sleeve (IIRC) and a plastic clip holding its wire bundle to the wire bundle next door. Consequently, the vibration of the wire bundle can cause small relative motions between the contacts (resulting in fretting wear) which is terrible for connection reliability. Truly a bizarre choice/implementation by the Designers IMO.
     
  11. MOSS

    MOSS Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2004
    1,619
    I did not know Steve was doing this. He should charge a lot for it.
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    I'm not -- but I do accept $s ;)

    I might do something fairly soon describing how to modify a 308 so that the headlight lever positions are inverted (and submit it to the FML and post it here), but "fairly soon" might be several years with my present Honey-do list...
     
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  13. Tom LI-NY

    Tom LI-NY Rookie

    Mar 6, 2021
    8
    Long Island NY
    Full Name:
    Tom Pinou
     
  14. Tom LI-NY

    Tom LI-NY Rookie

    Mar 6, 2021
    8
    Long Island NY
    Full Name:
    Tom Pinou
    Thanks for the info Steve. The 4pin connector clean, shiny contacts and looked like new.
    It was also very snug to get off. Nothing loose.

    Still waiting on sensors ordered-TDC & RPM?
    Hopefully by this weekend?
     
    EZORED likes this.
  15. Tom LI-NY

    Tom LI-NY Rookie

    Mar 6, 2021
    8
    Long Island NY
    Full Name:
    Tom Pinou
    djs308, turbo-joe and TestaDDS like this.
  16. Shane Grandell

    Nov 29, 2022
    2
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Shane Francis Grandell
    Hi Tom ,Shane hear ,nu to this chat page ,I have a 87 Testarossa are having a similar starting problem to yours ,could you tell me or post a photo of the part numbers of that TDC an RPM sensors you fitted to your Testa ,cheers
     
  17. Tom LI-NY

    Tom LI-NY Rookie

    Mar 6, 2021
    8
    Long Island NY
    Full Name:
    Tom Pinou
    Hi Shane,

    I purchased both sensors at:
    https://ferrparts.com/ telephone #s
    • (916) 974-1939
    • (888) 333-8444
    Sacramento California USA
    ...and that fixed the problem... car started like new.

    Good luck and God Bless.. let me know. Tom

    #1) Part Information: Angular speed sensor
    Part Number: 119052
    Online Price: $69.45

    Diagram Association #: 010
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    #2) Part Number: 124241
    Online Price: $41.15

    Diagram Association #: 011
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. Shane Grandell

    Nov 29, 2022
    2
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Shane Francis Grandell
    Thanks for that Tom , Cheers
     

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