EZ Power Steering kit | Page 2 | FerrariChat

EZ Power Steering kit

Discussion in '308/328' started by ATSAaron, Feb 24, 2021.

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  1. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    Im not wrong, with that being said, sounds like your taking this way to personal, lol One should not screw with the perfect steering set up on the 3x8s, I guarantee, if I drove a car with your said EZ steering, I could tell the difference in 5 seconds, its that simple . I read in your country, the only way to drive on interior mountain roads, are with 4x4 jeep or something like it, so your experience on canyon and mountain roads might be limited, but I can tell you, it wont be the same with anything other than the factory steering system Sir. I heard the Great Ocean Road, in Australia might be a good road to take your car on ?


    Thank you
     
  2. HK Mondial

    HK Mondial Karting

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    I think Gino doesn't understand that, other than at parking speeds, the EZ system doesn't affect the cars steering system at all. So, no, you wouldn't be able to tell it was installed . I have had one on my car for over 10 years and I can tell you that it makes having 220 x 390 front tyres on the car bearable when moving around in parking spaces.
     
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  3. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    You really are.
     
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  4. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    He's a bit clueless. I don't know why he's arching up about it. He's out of his depth and obviously he's never driven a car with this system.
     
  5. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
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    Even worse. Those fuses date from before WWII.
     
  6. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    There is a good article on EPS in Car and Driver, on EPS, Hydrolic, and manual steering racks. Manual have the best feel and the best feedback, there is no way you can tell me any different . Thats why most race cars, have them. When it rains, its going to be worse, when it comes to EPS. If you cant stand low speed resistance, then you might need to. Car and Driver also refers to all of these new age electronic aids in cars are killing the driving experience, and that includes EPS. Thirteen years of the 308/ 328 and then the F40, no assisted steering from Ferrari. We will have to agree to disagree.

    Thank you
     
  7. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    You don't seem to understand... Or want to understand.
     
  8. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari was, and is, a car company. Fabulous designs and engineering, but also built to a price. The 308 steering is nothing special - the same as lots of cars in period, and not bespoke at all. Go and drive a Series 1 Lotus Elise - that's what steering should feel like. I have a 1967 Lotus Elan - hardly superior technology to a 308, but after driving it, the 308 feels like a truck. Your precious, utopian, direct unassisted steering isn't the end of the story. The size of the wheel, the angle of the column, the number of universal joints in the column, the condition of all the joints, the bump-steer, the castor, the tyre size, the scrub - it all goes into the mix. I love my QV, but it ain't perfect, it's a product of the times.
    Disclaimer: I installed EPS, a faster rack, and a smaller steering wheel years ago, and would never go back. The low speed manoeuvrability is a joy, and the normal driving experienced is transformed by the faster ratio rack. Assistance drops to zero at 35kph.
     
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  9. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
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    And getting back to the OP's question, you should able to compare the splines when you remove the centre section. I do recall it being bloody tight
     
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  10. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Gino, you do not understand how this EZ steering assist system works. Fact. We don't need to agree or disagree - we all agree that you are wrong. It's not a matter of opinion or preference, it's that how you assume this system works is wrong. Listen for once! and read what I am about to write:

    - It is a LOW SPEED steering assist only.
    - Above a set speed, for example 5 mph, the electric assist turns off and does nothing to affect the manual steering rack.
    - Your steering effort when driving above 5 mph is exactly the same, the manual steering rack, whether you have the EZ steering assist installed or not.
    - IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME when driving above 5 mph.
    - Your repeated mentions about best feel, best feedback, etc etc - the feel and feedback of an EZ assist car is unchanged compared to a non-EZ assist car when you have left the parking lot and are driving on the curvy roads.
    - This is not EPS or Hydraulic power assist - it is an electric assist AT LOW SPEED.
    - It does not provide any assist or change the feel or feedback AT ALL above the set low speed.

    Regards,
    Gordon
     
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  11. JC Andruet

    JC Andruet Karting

    Jan 16, 2013
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    Hi Gordon. Gino bless him, appears typical of some contributors to this forum, in that he appears to be firmly of the opinion that whatever Ferrari built over 40 years ago, can't be improved on in ANY way shape or form. This isn't unusual in my experience, but if ever there was a case of each to their own, this particular scenario has to be it.

    Personally if some aspect of a car needs to be improved for that individuals benefit, ie to make their ownership/driving experience more enjoyable, I see no reason not to engineer a solution that works for said individual, put bluntly, whether it was built by Fiat, Ford or Ferrari, no part of it is sacred !! (from my perspective)

    I note that some of these EPAS systems appear to have a rheostat/controller that enables the driver to vary the amount of assistance provided, some infinitely, whilst others give just give 2 or 3 differing levels of assistance.

    Here in the UK, the Opel/Vauhall Corsa B & C series steering column/EPAS motor assembly has been the go to set up for those wanting to engineer an aftermarket EPAS installation (they can be bought on Ebay for as little as £150)
    This assembly was originally supplied with an ECU that takes a signal from a wheel speed/ABS sensor and processes it to ensure the motor provides more assistance at parking speeds, with a reduction in the amount of assistance as the vehicle speed rises.

    A couple of companies in the UK have made black boxes that remove the wheel speed sensor input and enable its replacement with a simple rheostat which is used to control the assistance infinitely all the way through the vehicle's speed range. A win, win scenario from my perspective.

    EZ can and do provide such an adjustable system :

    http://www.ezpowersteering.nl/photos/32CECE32AC8572712B4987FF001B85F42F3E176A6A376BCD226A19F4220DE6F0.pdf

    The 308 steering appears to have several issues that can impact on its weight/usability. Firstly is the typically "Italianate" driving position ( which was frequently commented on by numerous journalists back in the 60's,70's and 80's) isn't ideal for many, both ergonomically or from the perspective of applying leverage to the wheel rim. A perfect example of the flawed position can be seen here (I'm not sure how tall Mr Ceroni is, but the driving position is sufficiently comical, it even made him, an Italian, laugh) :



    but add in the fact that all the cars appear to have been delivered from the factory with their adjustable steering columns mounted in the highest/most awkward position, which makes for a less than ideal seat to steering wheel relationship, which in turn affects leverage available to the driver when wanting to turn the wheel through a large angle, quickly.

    The bushings in the 308 steering rack seems to be prone to wear, which no doubt impacts on the amount of force required to turn it, and the "magical" low friction bush at the base of the steering column (of which ANY form of lubrication is strictly verboten) seems to occasionally cause issues.
    Add in what is old steering geometry (the length of the steering arms attached to the front uprights speak volumes ...) and it's little wonder the whole steering system can be compromised for some owners/drivers.

    I've yet to see any in-car video of a roadgoing 308 being "hustled" quickly along a typically tight and twisty UK road (and for the record, I don't consider what the guys in the US term canyons roads anything like as tight and twisty as a typical European/UK back road) I wonder is that because the weight of the steering doesn't really lend itself to "hustling" the car in such a manner ?
     
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  12. 2cam

    2cam Formula Junior

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    Personally, I'm looking forward to Aaron's feedback on the system and the quick ratio rack. The PS system isn't in my car's immediate future, but the upgraded rack definitely is of interest.

    2cam
     
  13. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Why don't you ask me?

    LOL

    It's an absolute joy.

    Incidentally I used the rheostat to adjust the amount of assistance rather than speed. The steering really loads up during high speed tightish corners with the quick rack, so it didn't make sense to have no assistance at that point.
     
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  14. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    I hear what you are saying, with that being said, I myself have driven many sports and so called sports cars , and my 328 has the best feel and feedback that I have ever experienced, the 308 / 328 would have been even better in the handling dept, which by the way I forgot to mention in my comments about the 3x8s very few lack ofs if you want to call it that, if they had 17 inch wheels, the 308 started off with 15s, then they came with 16s, and although the 16s look really good on the 3x8s, the 17s allow for more modern tire use, so the size of the rim and the wider tires allow for a better handling car , I went from 17s the 7.5 width to 8 and 9 inch wide tires, and I have to say my 328 s grip feels like its going to rip chunks of asphalt of the road going around corners. And like I mentioned before, maybe your system works well with " normal driving" which just does not compute when it comes to Ferraris., Any artificial buffer between the wheels and the rack will reduce the feel and the feedback, As far as the EZ system, ok, so it does not work over 5 MPH, I thought the EZ and EPS where one in the same, with that being said, I still am surprised that once over 5 MPH you dont know its there...ok I stand corrected , I thought for sure it was an EPS.

    Thank you
     
  15. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    #40 ginoBBi512, Feb 27, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021

    Thats because most owners are not experienced enough to do so , my 328 s rack has never been rebuilt, nor has suffered from wear, I do plan to rebuild it, just because, I dont know if you have ever been to Ca, but trying to compare any roads in Europe, is like comparing a Ferrari to a toyota, its that simple. Ca has the best roads in the world period. I will make a video at some point in the future and post it. Here are some tire wear photos,this HWY 74 , will out road any in Europe, and this is just the beginning . Once I get the go pro mounted in the 328, I will take some videos. More pics to follow from photographers laying in the grass from todays ride, around the carousel , 3 bikes racing one another as well, up and down , this stretch of road has 3 S turns, when it starts to widen up, maybe your at 85-90 mph. Its a beautiful section of tarmac, but what else would you expect lol

    Thank you


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  16. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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  17. JC Andruet

    JC Andruet Karting

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    No shades of grey ? Using terms such as “the best” and “perfect” rather ignores the fact that both are highly subjective descriptions.
    But it also perfectly highlights my point, that being the roads you’ve posted images of are wide and sweeping, nothing like the technical, tight, twist and narrow backroads to be found in Europe and the UK. Precisely the type that are used as tarmac rally stages :







    The average speeds aren’t particularly high, primarily due to the severity and frequency of the corners.
     
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  18. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
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    I just love tarmac rallies. The first guy, in the Michelotto, is a rank amateur - stop/start, bouncing off the rev limiter, and generally in a gear too short. He should listen to his navigator, and maintain a bit of corner speed*







    *Unless the nav's crap :p
     
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  19. JC Andruet

    JC Andruet Karting

    Jan 16, 2013
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    Almost painful to watch. Early on the brakes, indecision as to whether or not to change down a gear on corner approach, no faith in how much grip the car has, harsh throttle application, poor downshifts, it's all there :D
    Car sounds great though, and it pulls like a train, added to which, the stage is a cracker.



    Practice makes perfect :





    Some showboating here :



    The treacherous Epynt military ranges in Wales



    And when it goes horribly wrong on Tarmac ... :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCXZnamjZAI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raCciapFd8Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-s6Zj_9DSw

    Group B 308 :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqUWYLhzZpc&gl=ES
     
  20. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    Nice videos, I meant clean paved roads, I would not want to take my car on unpaved or poorly paved roads that are only wide enough for one car at a time car at a time . I have some more pics to look at from a photographer that will show a little more of Sat ride.

    Thank you
     
  21. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Well, California actually does have a lot of the really narrow, really twisting, canyon and mountain roads you describe being found in Europe and UK. I've driven a lot in Ireland, the roads there are generally one step narrower than in the UK; and worked a lot around Silicon Valley (south of San Francisco) in the 1990s. The roads from south of San Francisco down to Santa Cruz, not Hwy 1 but connecting Hwy 1 to Hwy 35, are your kind of roads

    Here's some suggestions for California roads for you to check out on a map - do the street view to get a better sense of the width and curviness!

    Alpine Road, from La Honda east to Skyline Blvd Hwy 35 - a perfect Miata MX-5 road, I tried it once in a C7 Corvette and that car was much too big to drive quickly on the narrow winding road.

    Hwy 84 from Skyline Blvd (at Alice's Restaurant) to La Honda
    Tunitas Creek Road
    Big Basin Hwy 236, by Boulder Creek through Big Basin Redwoods State Park
    Bear Creek Road

    And more you can find on the map - that area is full of very narrow, tight, twisty roads that are a delight in a small nimble car.

    Other Northern California roads we've come across on trips down the coast that meet your preference for technical, tight, twisty, narrow roads:

    Hwy 20, Ft Bragg to Willits
    Hwy 1 Leggett to Coast Highway Lookout en route to Fort Bragg
    Arcata to Weaverville on 299, then back on 3/36 to Fortuna
     
  22. JC Andruet

    JC Andruet Karting

    Jan 16, 2013
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    Oh yes, the Irish roads are narrow, as are a lot of the Scottish, Welsh and English side roads.
    I've only been to the States once, about 10 years ago. I stopped off in Big Sur for a few nights. My loan car was neither small, nimble or light, so on the whole, I didn't stray from the wider roads, but a day before I left Big Sur, I thought I owed it to myself to investigate a road I'd seen on the map that looked promising... It turned out to be the Nacimiento to Ferguson road. You simply turn off the PCH heading South from Lucia down to St Simeon and you'll find yourself on the most wonderful piece of blacktop. As per your suggestion, have ago at "driving" it in Google maps street view.

    It was without a shadow of a doubt, a proper road, more akin to the tight, twisty, tortuous and technical tarmac found in the UK, Ireland, Corsica, Madeira etc, and precisely the sort of road I was suggesting a stock 308 wouldn't excel on. It's far removed from the type of road Gino was suggesting a stock 308's steering excelled on.
    Had I driven my 996 GT3 or my 993 RS along that section of road (both had sublime hydraulic PAS) it would have been a blast, and in no way tiring on the arms. Try doing it quickly in the 308 and you'd be praying there'd be a physiotherapist waiting for you in Ferguson ...

    I've yet to see a single in car Youtube video of a decent car being driven quickly (or hustled as I prefer to call it) down such a road. All too often the Canyon roads I see being driven, are more akin to this :



    They're very different roads to the ones I'm suggesting wouldn't play to a 308's strengths (in the steering department)

    I've just "driven" the Arcata to Weaverville road you suggested, it was stunning, though not one that would be taxing from a steering perspective. There are plenty of roads like that in the UK which are suitable for high speed cruising, and in the good old days before speed cameras (mobile and fixed) and ever Draconian penalties, I'd happily have got up early on a Sunday morning to cruise along them between 80 and 110mph for 2-3 hours before the masses descended on them. Sadly, those days are gone forever.
     
  23. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
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    Those were great! I love the 2nd guy practicing his handbrake turns!
     
  24. tazz99

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    The OP mentioned that he is also installing a fast ratio rack. That could make the steering unacceptable at slow speeds. YMMV
     
  25. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    I actually find fast cornering more troublesome with the way the steering loads up. My arms can handle it fine but I get sore hands from having to grip the wheel so firmly.
     

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