F355 Market | Page 202 | FerrariChat

F355 Market

Discussion in '348/355' started by Robb, May 19, 2015.

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  1. MHawk

    MHawk Rookie
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    In the past I've been more conservative with lifestyle/luxury expenses, but 2020 was a wake up call for me. I searched for the best car I could find, and bought a well sorted GTS as my first Ferrari. Also, people like me who grew up with this car on their bedroom walls are now getting to the point in their careers where they can afford to live out their childish fantasies.
     
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  2. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Found it. Right around the same mileage as well.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1995-ferrari-f355-berlinetta.527735/
     
  3. johnk...

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  4. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    #5029 ShineKen, Feb 26, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
    I'm sure it has. Probably depends alot on what specs and quality of the cars that have come into market. This thread is currently 500 pages long and if you look back at Robb's very first post, I'm the reason why it exists :). But I haven't really been engaging in this thread until maybe the past 6 months believe it or not. I rarely participated in this thread because I don't find it productive to go back and forth on $10-30k valuation differences for this car.

    I'm only actively engaging now because I genuinely feel things are much different this time around. Significant moves. Finally, REAL market appreciation for these cars. Not that I plan to sell, but it would be nice to get some valuation respect at the local car meets :).
     
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  5. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Honestly, I hope you are right. Spiders are rising too, the good ones.The problem is, it's always different this time is a long standing chiche. The more accurate statement is that nothing goes straight up. It doesn't matter how few cars are available, at some point the stakes will just get too high and buyers will disappear.
     
  6. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Years ago, most people felt it was absurd the 355 could ever be worth more than an F430. We're heading into 458 territory right now. That's all that matters to me.
     
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  7. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    Can we start a beater 355 thread? I think I will do that. I reviewed a lot of these post and then saw Dave’s for sale thread from 2015. Spectacular car and highly detailed to his insane level. Robb does the same, as well as many of you. My 99 GTB Museum car was that way and no fun for me. The “new” car needs a bumper repair and I have decided to skip it for now. Going to have Norwood’s baseline the car for me and their opinion and just drive it. Contemplating never washing it again. It was pretty darn dirty. I have cleaned it up a bunch, but have no interest in just cleaning it a bunch. Just drive it, like I stole it...... issue is it is on my lift and not the easiest to lower all the time to use.

    Need to find a better garage situation ;-)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    No..you are not even close to 458 numbers. I just sold a 97 355 spider for 65k. 13k km on the clock. Real selling prices are below 100k at the momment.
     
  9. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    o_O
     
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  10. johnk...

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  11. 911NBK

    911NBK Karting

    Jan 2, 2021
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    This car has 95000km, fast classics car has 11000km.

    Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk
     
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  12. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Irrelevant lol
     
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  13. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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  14. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    You can ask what ever you want. The selling price is what you need to know.
     
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  15. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Formula Junior
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    ASKING prices do not indicate values. SELLING prices do. A lot of you guys are pointing to asking prices to support your opinion about values. I've been watching 328 and 355 advertisements on a daily basis for about 8 months now. And I can tell you this. Nearly all 355s that are ASKING above 100k are manual transmission models in GTS or Berlinetta form. F1 Spiders are routinely offered for 55-80k, depending on mileage and condition. I keep seeing the vast majority of them sitting. And sitting. And about once a week I get a notification because someone lowered the asking price on Cargurus or Cars.com or wherever. And it STILL sits. There's a particular 328, for instance, that has been on Cargurus for over 900 days. And it's still available. The asking price is stupid. Most of the cars are in the same boat. By far, the ones that I see getting sold are the ones asking well under 100k, for both 328s and 355s.

    Marshall Goldman has a 328 GTS advertised for 200k. It has a little over 2,000 miles on it. Shall we use that one as a data point in a discussion of 328 values? That makes about as much sense as posting an ad for a 355 from the UK with a sky high asking price and using it to support an opinion about overall market values. "Hey, this one just sold for $150k!!! The market must be soaring!" Uh, no.
     
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  16. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Apparently you guys missed the manual Yellow GTS with 30k mi that SOLD on BAT for $132k 3 days ago.


    Outside of auction, there’s no way to list examples of “selling” prices unless you had inside info on the deal. We can only list the ad with asking prices and watch how long it takes before it moves.


    The Red/Black car in Japan asking $160k a week ago is now sold. Yes, it sold within a week of listing. You tell me what it sold for. I guarantee it didn’t sell for less than $100k.


    The Red/Tan GTS which SOLD on Bat for $166k was recently listed on Marshall Goldman and sale pending (prob sold now) before they could even upload pictures.

    If you contact Stradale in Europe, they will tell you what their cars SOLD for.

    And yes, I believe manual coupes sub 40k miles are spearheading the current 355 market, so when someone tells me they sold a 355 spider for $65k, you are preaching to the choir.
     
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  17. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Ask for this car was $156k. I linked to it on Jan 6th. It was probably the highest ask for a coupe at the time in Europe. It is now gone (could have sold weeks ago). You guys tell me what it sold for. Sub $100k ????
     
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  18. 355dreamer

    355dreamer F1 World Champ
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    I always have enjoyed the value discussions here, and I love to see the 355s getting some respect.

    As many of you know, I’ve owned 5 355s in the last 15 years. (One of which I flipped before I even registered it.)

    Appreciating values are effectively meaningless once you figure in the cost of owning them.

    I’ve said it before... BaT has become the Barrett Jackson of car “values”

    For example, I sold a miniature Japanese fire truck on BaT a few years ago. I bought it for 6k from eBay, but it in BaT and sold it for something around 26k. After that, many more came up on BaT trying to use mine as the predicted value. They all sold for less than 15k.

    First to market doesn’t always define current value.
     
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  19. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    That is true. BAT has outliers. Which is why the recently sold manual yellow GTS is a strong indication of upward trend or at least shows the red manual GTS which sold for $166k back in September wasn’t too far out of an outlier. The cars are priced in line comparatively.

    We now have 2 strong data points from BAT alone within a few months of each other. This is the different from the case where a 355 Spider sells on BAT for $115k and the next 10 spiders listed sell for $70k.
     
  20. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Formula Junior
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    Both the red manual GTS (161k, not 166k) and the yellow manual GTS (127k, not 132k) are both outliers on BaT. Want proof? Look at this, which you can find yourself on BaT. This is all of the 355 auctions on BaT for the last 5 years:

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    If you hover over the dots, it shows you the car and the sold price. If you click it, it goes straight to the auction page. The white dots are ones that did not meet reserve.

    The red/tan that sold recently for 161k is the highest one. The yellow one for 127k is furthest to the right. The other 2 over 100k that sold recently are Challenge models.

    In all of BaT history, only 5 (five) 355s have sold for more than 100k. Since 4 of them occurred within the last 6 months, you could assume that the 355 market is on the upswing, and I wouldn't disagree. But two of those were Challenges, and there are many, many more that have sold within the last 6 months on BaT, and none of them breached 100k. Many of those were manual transmission, average miles, and some were GTS/Berlinetta. Here's a yellow manual GTS that was only bid to 89k in early November. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-ferrari-f355-gts-2-2/ How can you look at the virtually identical 127k one from last week and conclude that THAT is the one that defines the market?

    Here's a Berlinetta 6-speed with only 12k miles that sold for 96k in August: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-ferrari-f355-6/ . I consider this to be FAR more in line with the market, even though it probably should have gotten 10k more because of the miles.

    Two recent data points of outlier sale prices are irrelevant. You need to look at ALL of the BaT data, which you can do simply by navigating to the model page and clicking the F355 link. If you sign up for free at Mecum, B-J, Bonham's and all the other auction sites, you can get auction results from them as well.

    Again, I don't disagree that the F355 market is trending upward, but the examples you keep siting are indeed outliers, not indicative of typical sale prices. The BaT data underscores this.
     
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  21. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    I personally know of 5 cars that sold for over 150k USD in the last month. All Berlinetta's but frankly that's all I pay attention to...

    2 of those were over $200k

    And that doesn't include the ones mentioned on here that I haven't seen or heard of myself (unlisted cars that people in this thread have mentioned being moved)

    I think everyone is in denial if they think the prices haven't jumped in the last 5-6 months it's pretty clear anything that's in good shape and sorted is selling for mid 100s.
     
  22. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    #5048 tres55, Feb 27, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
    +$5000 BaT fee on $100k+ cars (5% capped at $100k)

    Also, I like how you guys use these "low" examples and don't even read the descriptions. That car has an accident on the CarFax...and it still sold for nearly $100k with fees.
     
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  23. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    1996 MY Berlinetta
    Rosso / Nero
    68,000km (42,500 miles)
    Carbon Seats
    Pre-Airbag steering wheel (assuming added after inception? but is a 2.7 car so maybe stock)
    One owner car

    16,500,000 JPY = $155,000 USD

    https://autoc-one.jp/used/detail/20208339/

    Mileage on this one is relatively high for the asking price. However, rare options, 2.7 cars, red/black...tick tick tick.

    How long do you guys think this will last?

    The last one I found in Japan with these options and early car, 20,000km sold for 18,500,000 yen, $173,500 USD.
     
  24. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Formula Junior
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    Here's what Hagerty shows for GTS values over the last 3 years. Obviously trending up recently, but look at the values. Hagerty gets its data from all of the auction houses, including BaT. Note that 6-speed manual adds 20%, so that #2 has an average value of 96,960. #3 average value is 77,760. All of the recent 355's on BaT were no higher than #2 condition, and some were #3.

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