F355 coil-on-plug conversion | Page 11 | FerrariChat

F355 coil-on-plug conversion

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by jeffdavison, Oct 22, 2004.

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  1. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Me too, engine coming out this winter and I want to convert to COP. My motorcycle (vmax) was converted to COP and it makes a noticeable difference.
     
  2. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,562
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Tim Dee
    I have 2 sets to put on mine just never got to it

    Now I have the 348 running like I want I think that will get it first

    These wires and coils are weak at best. The 355 should really light up if you use a MSD system down low rpm. You may even get some decent power if you throw more fuel at it also. I put some MSD on engines that would not run with a conventional ignition and "Boy Howdy" :)


    More Fuel, air, spark is YUMMY :)


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SClnXsRsEFE[/ame]
     
  3. Roger348

    Roger348 Karting

    Feb 10, 2013
    104
    Reno, Nevada
    Full Name:
    Roger Cody
    Good morning too all!
    I'm wondering if anyone out there has put together a complete list of materials, I've purchased the MSD-DIS-4 and the 8 COPs needed, but I don't know where to source the remaining items. Any help would be much appreciated.

    Hope everyone has a wonderful day

    Roger
     
  4. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    324
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    Which coils did you go for Roger? Have you tested them in place with the plug covers screwed down?
     
  5. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    324
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    Just noticed your username - no plug covers on a 348 :)
     
  6. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    324
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    #256 redwedge, Nov 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've been researching suitable dumb pencil coils to use with the M5.2 ignitor outputs, rather than using an amplifier in between. I haven't found anything suitable yet, however I just thought I would add the spec sheet for the standard coil packs to this thread. Two/three/four heads are better than one and all that.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. Roger348

    Roger348 Karting

    Feb 10, 2013
    104
    Reno, Nevada
    Full Name:
    Roger Cody
    Hello Steve,
    I've got both 348ts and F355 Spider(note sold 348 and looking for 360 or 430) I've found the connectors for the COP's now need the connectors for the coils and type/size of wire. Any idea where one might source these?

    Cheers
    Roger
     
  8. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    15,475
    Dumpster Fire #31
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    SMG
    Here's the ones I use on the COP conversions, it's a 4 pin only because toyota uses a feedback sense for counting the pulses to catch miss fires. Just needs a 5v trigger signal.

    denso 90919-02240
     
  9. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    Jul 29, 2002
    2,544
    Suwanee Georgia
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    Jeffrey Davison
    Long time revisit to the thread. It's Oct. 22 2019...about time for a long term report.... All is still working fine. The 2nd MSD DIS4 box I got a long time ago has worked perfectly. Just had an EOS and changed the plugs just cuz. Wondering about all the other FChaters who followed this path.
    JD
     
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  10. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Apr 12, 2017
    7,676
    Atlanta, GA
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    Steve D.
    I'm in Marietta, and would love to see the setup.

    sjd
     
  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    17,913
    USA
    Jeff, have you ever dyno'd your car to see if there is an improvement? Also, is the shorter nose projection on the EIX plugs a concern? I ended up going back the stock plugs in my car, as I was not using the COP set up. Awesome to see it running well all these years.
     
  12. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    Jul 29, 2002
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    Jeffrey Davison
    If you get to Johns Creek let me know. Nothing really to see. Little red box mounted in the back and the COPS are hidden with a spacer and the stock cover.
     
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  13. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    Jul 29, 2002
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    Jeffrey Davison
    Never dyno'd. Seat of pants has shown me a smoother idle and acceleration, and less back firing.. before there was the occasional normal pop pop, but it seems quieter in that regards and the Tubi never sounded better. Plugs have never been an issue.
     
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  14. 355 P4

    355 P4 Karting

    Oct 13, 2020
    132
    So. California
    Full Name:
    Bill Krueger
    Hi, I'm new to this and it is 2021. I see that this thread started in 2002 and so I would like an up-date. Still working great?
    The CoP idea came to me last year (late bloomer I guess).
    My situation is a little different. I have a 355 engine in a 67 P4 replica. Because the rear deck world not close over the two intake air boxes I am left with 8 velocity stacks which does not allow the Motronics ECU (which uses a Mass air flow unit or two). My car was supplied with a PROEFI (out of Arizona) ECU so my conversion to CoP system may be different.
    As for the overall length of the suggested CoP unit, I intended to machine the correct coil housing diameter through the existing Ferrari plug cover. Only one such coil could actually impinge on the Ferrari logo and I was thinking of using my existing coil and plug wire down the normal channel for the cylinder. I was considering the Cop approach to clean up my engine bay while is considerably more open than your stock 355, I have 8 GM coils across the back of my engine with electrical wires running the length of the engine and plug wire running forward through that small port at the back of the cam cover. The people who build this car did not use Ferrari plug wires (probably because of the expense). I am told that they used Dodge Hemi wires,
    I did not like the plug wire squeezed together through the port (no 4 hole grommet) so I used aluminum tube spacers from ACE hardware to stand the cover plate off to provide space for the wires and plastic plug wire separators. If I convert to Cop coils I can put the cover back down where it belongs and run shorter electical wires to the coils directly from the engine valley to each coil.
    I'm still not sure what an Igniter is but I told that I would need one (or 8?). My current GM coils seem to have the necessary components within the coils. Is the Dis 4 (MSD?) that you talk about the igniter and what does it actually do?
    Hard to imagine all of the improved idle, off idle, med and top range improvements claimed and would like to hear up-dates from any folks who have performed this conversion. Thanks Oh, my 355 plug cover plate does not say five valve - does that make mine an early one? The 360 would seem to have the same heads (5 valve) but the first thing that I found out was that the cam covers are different so they can't be used to solve this conversion simply - comments?
     
  15. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    #265 jeffdavison, Feb 22, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
    Still running great. Long term owner here. The MSD DIS4 system really is the "igniter" to the coil (on the plug) The MSD unit gets its signal from the stock Ferrari ECU. The cylinders fire in a wasted spark, that is when one cylinder is in ignition, another fires in the exhaust cycle. I believe this was shown earlier in the thread with the wiring diagram. Also, I had a spacer machined to elevate the spark plug cover out of aluminum for clearance and a stock appearance .Have fun with your project.
     
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  16. 26street

    26street Formula Junior

    Jan 30, 2021
    343
    Westchester New York
    Full Name:
    Mark k
    Jd I like the concept and really interested in seeing it in action
    but I do have a question I know that MSD uses a multi spark firing at lower rpm’s per firing event but once over 3500rpm goes back to signal fire event so how are you setting the ignition curves and rev limiter and will you be testing on a dyno if so would like to see the numbers thanks



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  17. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    Jul 29, 2002
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    Since it takes it's signals from the stock ECU, there is no need to change anything on the MSD....The stock ignition curve is unaltered.... Unless you want the rev limiter lower than the stock unit, then there is really no need to change. The MSD is basically a dumb ignition box, just following the stock ECU curve except uses the multi sparks at lower rpms and a hotter spark.... I have the MSD limiter turned off.
     
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  18. 26street

    26street Formula Junior

    Jan 30, 2021
    343
    Westchester New York
    Full Name:
    Mark k
  19. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    It out came out very well, with just one MSD-DIS4 unit replaced a long while back.... 16 years ago. Still running strong... pics were posted way back when in the threads early postings
     
  20. 355 P4

    355 P4 Karting

    Oct 13, 2020
    132
    So. California
    Full Name:
    Bill Krueger
    Please excuse my ignorance but what does an MSD Dis4 do and why is it needed (I don't know what an igniter is but the Ferrari 355 and/or the 360 CoP coils seem to have them included.
    I am looking to convert to CoP and your criteria for an acceptable coil seemed to center around it's physical length (you still had to fabricate a spacer for the plug cover-no?). Because of the double firing interval of the wasted spark arrangement I have been concerned with the recharge capability of any any coil that I choose and as such have been looking at the expensive 360 coils. Your Susuki coils are probably fully capable of rapid fire. Comments?
     
  21. 355 P4

    355 P4 Karting

    Oct 13, 2020
    132
    So. California
    Full Name:
    Bill Krueger
    Hi, it's the rookie again. I don't know how to start a new subject on this sight but would like to know the difference between the Motronics 2.7 and 5.2. What exactly did this change effect? I would guess that at some point there was an ECU up-grade (they ar ECUs-right?) but every time I look at 355 parts of any sort they want to know witch I have and I don't know. I'm thinking that I don't have either because my engine was changed to a PROEFI control unit but why are so many seemingly unrelated parts concerned about which ECU I have?
     
  22. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
    11,484
    Sydney
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    Ian Riddell
    How many ECU's do you have and where are they?

    5.2:
    One ECU mounted in the cabin behind the right hand seat
    One MAF, one IAC, one fuel pump (although some later 2.7's had one), one fuel filter, one Check Engine Light, one Slow Down light, one crank sensor...
    Four O2 sensors
    Y shaped inlet ducting
     
  23. 355 P4

    355 P4 Karting

    Oct 13, 2020
    132
    So. California
    Full Name:
    Bill Krueger
    I'm guessing that MAF is Mass Air Flow (did the 2.7 have more than one?).
    What is IAC and did the 2.7 have more than one?
    My chassis was set up for 2 fuel pumps but one was removed and the output of the remaining pump is split into 2 fuel lines (one for each bank fuel rail).
    I don't have a fuel filter in the system.
    My system only has 2 O2 sensors.
    I honestly don't know how many ECUs I have but I think just one. I'm old school thinking carb and distributer. You'll surmise that I need educating on computer controllers.
     
  24. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    IAC = idle air controller. The 2.7 had basically two of everything (ECUs, MAFs, IACs, O2 sensors, crank sensors...). The earler 2.7 cars had two cam sensors, but then changed to one. The changepoint for the cam sensors was around engine number 38322.
     
  25. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    17,913
    USA
    Before going further, you would be best served to fully understand your car...pre modifications. Here is a link to the factory workshop manual, which is a great start:
    Workshop Manual (the355.com)
    Then you can compare with what modifications you have currently, and where you want to go.
    Good luck!
     
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