NO: it's a brand new engine with 120° bank angle and the two turbos between the banks, without even a screw from the Alfa Romeo engine. And 150 Hp more than that ciao PS The first fireup was three years ago, when the Alfa Romeo engine was already produced.
The “hot V” (with the turbos set inside between the cylinder banks) set up is apparently all the rage now. BMW was the first to have a series “hot V” engine with the N63, way back in 2008. Now, Mercedes has one with the 4.0 liter M176/M177/M178. Porsche developed the ubiquitous 4.0 V8 that has a hot V as well. Cadillac’s short lived Blackwing V8. And it was revealed that Aston Martin’s new V6 (going into the upcoming Vanquish and limited Valhalla) is a hot V set up as well. I suspect that they just lopped two cylinders off of the Mercedes M176 “hot V” V8 that they use. So, to reiterate, Ferrari LB, “hot V” TT V6 hybrid, Mclaren “hot V” TT V6 hybrid “Artura”, Aston Martin “hot V” TT V6 hybrid “Vanquish”, and the Lamborghini Huracan Evo, which is still NA V10. Honorable mentions are the upcoming Corvette Z06/ZR1, and current Honda/Acura NSX (TT V6 non-hot V set up).
"Hot V" and V6TT with 120 degree bank angle was a Ferrari winning idea in 1980 (Mauro Forghieri designed F1 engine type 021), 41 years ago. Here the 126C prototype driven by Gilles Villeneuve at Imola 1980 GP during saturday Qualyfing session (sorry, only a scale model: I don't want to post a Copyrigth protected picture, but you can find tons of them on the net). ciao Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login This above is the Ferrari 021 V6 TT 1,5 liter F1 engine with 120 degree bank angle: shown on the 1981 Ferrari 126CK. Picture Copyright: me. Ciao
Interesting, could the name of the LB be a tribute to this F1 prototype? Since the SF90 Stradale is a tribute to the SF90 F1 car, they might want to continue that naming trend .. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Most people were expecting a V8. Even the Ford GT from 2005 was rumored to have a V10, and Ford was developing one at the same time that they were developing the Ford GT. That engine wound up in a few Concept cars, and then the Shelby GR1. However, the current Ford GT was designed around that Ecoboost 3.5 V6 engine, which did have racing success in Daytona Prototype, and apparently is capable of 800 hp in race trim. Look at where that V6 is nestled. A V8 would have been too long or too wide. Also, due to limited production, it seems that these cars are selling on the second hand market for twice as much as they cost. $1 million or more for a Ford GT?
The hot V has been around, as you’ve shown. However, it was BMW that had the first series production of the hot V engine. They tend not to be good at, heat management, what with the hot turbos sitting in between the cylinder banks—hence the term hot V. However, with modern day intercoolers and materials, it’s become manageable.
Who knows: my bet is Dino 306 (Dino as it's small, 30 as it's a three liters, 6 as it's the first six cylinder Ferrari ever, the others were Dino) but I'm only guessing, as I don't know the name. Ciao
The Turbos top position was chosen by Mauro Forghieri in 1980 just for having the engine best heat management possible: the hot air goes upwards and this gave a better engine temperature management. The LB is not a front engine car, so over the turbos there is the room to place there the typical hot air outlets. ciao
Somebody posted in the Alfa Romeo QV thread it would use the same engine... i googled and found this ... The Alfa is a 90 degree V6 with 2 Turbos. This apparently is going to be 120 Degree V6 https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-shots/ferrari/hybrid-v6/
The most important reason for a hot V set up is, less turbo lag, especially in a production engine. When you have the turbos and exhaust manifold in the traditional space, it takes more time for the turbos to spool up. The downside is that the it gets hot in that V! In a production engine, heat management is more important due to the engine needing to last more than one race. Remember BMW had some of the most powerful F1 engines of all time during the 1980s. 4 cylinders that were known as grenade engines. Because they blew up, and didn’t last. They didn’t have the tech that we have now, just like Ferrari’s hot V engines back then wouldn’t last in a production car back then. There weren’t jokes and memes about Ferraris burning to the ground back then, but if they had that set up in say a 308 at the time...one wonders. The engineers of the LB have to deal with the same issue as the engineers of the Mclaren Artura, which is the heat management of the hot V set up. In the vid of the Artura, JWW talks about the heat management and how they have spots for the heat to come up. Mid engined cars are already compromised when it comes to packaging, cooling, and design (they generally will all look the same), add a hot V set up, plus hybrid tech, cars marketed for doing track work, plus people pushing the cars, one wonders what will be the issues with these new cars down the road. Apparently the rumor is that Aston Martin is having problems with their hybrid hot V V6, who knows the reasoning why. But, this is apparently the reason why the Vanquish (and Valhalla) release has been pushed back. Also, the rumor is that they are thinking about using the AMG 4.0 hot V V8, that the Aston Martin Vantage V8, DBX, and DB11 V8 use.
I assume it will have the SF90 “pizza box” electric motor between the engine and gearbox and no front motors - which will differentiate it in more ways than one from SF90 - it will actually have some luggage space in the front! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Yes, very likely it will have the same electric engine or something very similar. It's a 2WD car with more room in the front trunk than the SF90. ciao
Everybody knows that the 120 degree angle is the correct one for a V6: the only reason why we saw 90 degree (or closer) ones were as they used a V8 derived block or to have a narrow engine. But if you have turbochargers the narrowest will be the one that has the tubochargers between the banks and so you need an high bank angle to fit them (and fit them low to lower the center gravity). V6TT with 120 degree bank angle is the perfect solution to have a balanced engine (120 degree is 720:6, the perfect angle for balancing a V6) a low centre gravity and ultra narrow engine (width is measured outside the exhaust and turbochargers). That's the reason why V8TT and V6 TT engines are often in the hot configurtation with the turbos between the banks. That's the reason why all the three new V6TT (Aston, Ferrari and McLaren) will be 120 degree and with the turbo between the banks: it's an obvious solution in the turbo era. ciao
And I want to add this: in the hybrid era you need some fresh room to fit the cables and eletric/electronic units, as cables and electronics don't like at all high temperatures. The best way is to concentrate all the hot in the mid top of the engine bay, so you will have "fresh" zone (aside the engine) withouts turbocharges, without cats and exhaust headers. Ferrari had (as the others) some problems to manage the top hot spots, so the engine development was long (and the new Ferrari 3.0 V6TT has much more power than the new Aston and McLaren V6TT) ciao
Here is something positive that I have to say about the Artura, ADAS integration. There solution looks even better integrated than Porsche's. I generally don't agree with @SoCal to az on ferrari being lazy but this one thing where Ferrari's solution is godawfully ugly. That square black box requiring a cutout in the grill is truly lazy work. I hope Ferrari has a better solution for the little brother.
Adaptive cruise control camera? Yes, that was a lazy integration. And, so ugly it can't be unseen. Just awful.
During my early engineering days, we learned all about centrifugal pumps and impellers, frictional losses of flowing fluids (including air) in pipes, and overcoming process deadtime, all major contributors to turbo lag. While some of these factors may support the hot V design principle, cooler gases, being more dense, are more desirable in driving impellers, so there are a number of reasons not to mount the blowers directly on top. Another is lubricity of bearings and the impact of higher temperatures on rotating equipment. Space savings, hybrid design and cable management would be my better guess as to why the Hot V has re-emerged. Reliability? Remains to be seen.
