Super cars with 20 miles of full electric power = STUPID | FerrariChat

Super cars with 20 miles of full electric power = STUPID

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by TheMayor, Feb 17, 2021.

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  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
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    Vegas baby
    There's this trend in super cars now to have hybrids. Ok, I'm fine with that if it makes better performance. I'm not sure its worth the money and weight but -- go for it if that's what you want.

    What's stupid is marketing these as daily drivers that can travel inside a city for 20 miles or less on only electric power. WHY would you want to do that? Is this your only car? You need to take your $500,000 car to the office and or stop by a grocery store in the city center?

    Who cares if you drive your "super car" 15 miles an hour in London at 45 MPH top speed? Maybe YOU but everyone else is laughing.

    No sound, no excitement, just you looking stupid in your silent trophy car trying to show how "green" you are.

    Come on guys. Stop being wussies! It is what it is. Drive the damn thing already in a place where you can use it. Its a complete waste trying to take a thoroughbred and turn it into a plow horse.

    Rant over! :)
     
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  2. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
  3. Tegethoff

    Tegethoff Formula Junior

    Jul 19, 2014
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    I think in general it's a stepping stone method of integration, using electricity to augment combustion. The ability to run on pure electric mode is simply a matter of software programming at this point, but may allow higher performance vehicles to forgo Ultra Low/Zero Emissions Zone taxation.

    I see this coming up more in the UK but Santa Monica California is proposing a zero emission delivery vehicle zone.


    https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-and-air-quality/mayors-ultra-low-emission-zone-london

    https://www.greenbiz.com/article/california-city-santa-monica-maps-first-us-zero-emission-delivery-zone
     
  4. fastback33

    fastback33 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2004
    1,851
    100% agree. This is the best looking modern performance car in a decade and they didnt bother putting it in production. :(
     
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  5. fastback33

    fastback33 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2004
    1,851
    I actually think this method is the best solution to both worlds of ice vs electric.

    Counter point. This solution provides the instant torque of the electric motors with the ice powertrain and no heavy batteries that are so detrimental to performance or ten hour fill up times.

    This is a legislated engineering exercise so no matter what there will be compromises. Hybrid offers the best solution between the rules and the performance side.
     
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  6. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Many cities ban ice or are highly restricted. So. Car that can run on electric and avoid congestion charges is a better seller.
    Tue 20 miles on pure lyric is also just a side benefit for the hybrids.
    The reality is thyre creatures of legislation.

    one last point and it’s key. Ever since the Luca era arrives suoecars have been all about posing and very little about driving con brio. So a super car that can go pose on the Kong’s road will sell while a noisy hard to drive Brest that’s great on certain open roads will not.
    That all started switch paddles which wee and excuse to drive an at
     
  7. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    While I know we are headed in that direction, can you list the 'many cities' that ban ICE?
     
  8. ferrariwithsnowtires

    ferrariwithsnowtires Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2005
    545
    It's just a mode that you can chose to use or not use

    I pretty much never use the quiet mode in my NSX (Sport + 90% of the time)

    The upside with the SF90 is that it provides roughly 1000 HP and AWD, truly amazing car

    I try to avoid use of the words need or fair

    These are fun toys, the manufacturers keep evolving their products, the consumers buy or pass on them.

    I just think the new hybrid offerings will have enough go in them to interest a lot of customers (unlike how it went for the Gen 2 NSX).
     
  9. Tegethoff

    Tegethoff Formula Junior

    Jul 19, 2014
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    I don't think any have an outright ban, yet. mostly just increased road use taxation.
     
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  10. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Most european cities have some sort of congestion charge, which do not apply to electric.
    I know London and paris already have ice bans in the works
     
  11. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    You said "Many cities ban ice". Can you name a few?
     
  12. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    ok to clarify a bold statement, many cities have plans to ban ice in their centers.
    Most cities in Europe already have some form of ice restrictions already in the form of congestion charges based on co2.. La will probably follow suit.

    The functional ban is a limit on allowable co2 failure to adhere to which creates a large daily charge for being in the city. London I know does this already.

    a hypercar that can tiptoe into town on electric ower makes sense and will
    Meet regulatory requirements in Europe.
    Hybridization also gets these cars past all sorts of tightening emission rules and does great virtue signaling. They are a creature of legislation.

    however while you and I may not like them for 99% of customers they work just fine because these cars are used to pose and are bought on paper stats. If you can drive your car into a restricted zone on Electric power you can pose more. And if the hybridization Means your paper bar stool numbers are better tha. A pure ice car, all the better.

    I know from Freinds who live in London that there is already a significant charge for cars that emit above a certain level of Co2 when in London l. An electric car or a car that can run elect ic in that zone avoids lots of charges. In the future those restriction will become more onerous.

    I belive Paris has banned ice cars built before a certain time due to emissions, these rules too will get stricter untill such time as pure ice becomes impossible .
    Rhee two are not the only cities.

    the sf90 is an answer to that legislation and sells because it’s a Ferrari and is notionally faster than a pure ice one. The manufacturers are meeting the needs of their market.
    Emissions and congestion charges will drive cars in this direction. Perhaps those rules are not applicable in the USA but if chin and Europe go that way, and they are them most oedicts will be made to work globally.

    another option is to go pure electric. We’re already seeing some classic being converted. The legislation is coming. The question is how much will you be allowed to drive your ice car in a city and at what daily charge. I. That context an electric 308 or etypes may make a lot of sense for an urban dweller, and a car that can switch to limited electric mobility for a congestion zone makes sense too.

    the op question is what’s the point of a hyoercar that can do 20 miles on electric, Meeting legislation
     
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  13. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I feel bad now that you wrote all that. I was only busting your balls because you knew you made a completely false statement. There are no cities currently banning ICE.

    Im well aware many cities are discussing it, and might actually do it, but none have.

    I was hoping you would have just said, 'okay that was a bad exaggeration' and we could have moved on.

    I just think these types of exaggerations are a big part of why good conversation has disappeared.
     
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  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    fair enough and I admitted to the exaggeration eror up front.

    But I was also addressing the op question as to why they exist.

    cars and writing about them are a passion, even though my spelling sucks and I’m not an especially able writer. So once I get going.
    Your larger point is well taken especially when we get to politics wheee theee are fewer objective guardrails. But I’m not sure it was ever any different.
     
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  15. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,228
    I used to daily drive my Murcielago. Street park, grocery store, etc. I loved it. If it had battery power for the mundane drives, I wouldn't have cared.

    Some of us treat cars as ... cars.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  16. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
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    An electric powered exotic is an oxymoron.

    Vintage exotics anyone? Abundance of sound and old tech makes them feel fast at the speed limit too.
     
  17. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    Really one of the worse things you can do to an engine is start it and not get it up to operating temp. Sometimes the drive is just too short. So maybe if you do some short trips you wouldn't even have to start the engine?
     
  18. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I don't think many are doing it yet anywhere, but this whole electric range sounds like future proofing to me. IMO it's a best of both worlds, a necessary evil even if you will.

    I don't agree with any of the banning, in fact I think there should be an exception made to certain manufacturers as I think a very real case could be made that cars like Ferrari & Lamborghini for example, are far cleaner in the real world than pretty much anything else, even the cars perceived as green. Ferrari's & such rarely end up in the scrapyard, when they do they tend to have been horribly crashed. Even then, any usable parts get taken off and used again...Compare that to any other normal car, also EV's, which at their end of life (typically around 12-20 years or 2-300K miles in), they get hauled off to the scrapyard and crushed...and all that energy consumed to build a car (which is a lot) will be used again to build more cars...which get thrown away again.

    Meanwhile, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's and such? They won't end up in the scrapyard because they're difficult to sell or are a bit old...they keep going on.

    Maybe manufacturers like Ferrari should be allowed to offset the cost of manufacturing and continue to use ICE as it is. Moving to electric will kill their business, and of course as we learned now, will becoming environmentally unfriendly!
     
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  19. Jeff3545

    Jeff3545 Karting

    Sep 4, 2018
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    Jeff Nolan
    my wife drives a Panamera Turbo S hybrid sport turismo and I’m now a fan of the hybrid drivetrain. The performance is otherworldly for such a large car and you really feel the extra horsepower the electric motor offers in the low end. The 4.0 liter pushes 550 hp on it’s own, the electric is another 134 but that doesn’t tell the whole story because it is rated for 190 lb ft of torque.

    The thing I like the most is that she never fails to run the tank down to almost empty and that 23 miles of EV range saves the day.
     
  20. Carbuilder

    Carbuilder Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2012
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    Having a BMW i8, I think the combination of pure electric, hybrid, or pure gas is a great system. The electric range is not great (40kms) but if I want to run into town and take a bit of a drive on the way, I can do it full electric and not use any gas. So what, some people say. So...it is very cool! If I want to flip it into sport mode and use the gas engine then I have that choice. It gives me the choice of how I want to drive it. If you think the only way to enjoy an exotic is to go roaring around, red-lining every shift, then you are missing a lot of the fun.

    Rick
     
  21. Jeff3545

    Jeff3545 Karting

    Sep 4, 2018
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    Jeff Nolan
    I really believe the PHEV is the best possible technology combination for performance and efficiency... but mostly performance. Critics who focus solely on the range in e-mode miss the point that the combined mileage in hybrid mode is double what running on ICE alone can deliver. My Panamera in hybrid mode will get 20mpg, but on gas only it is always 10mpg and I think that is because Porsche bottom limited the consumption stat to 10 mpg, the car actually gets about 8mpg with normal-to-spirited driving. Drive it aggressively and you can watch the fuel gauge deplete in real-time. People will say “why would you worry about MPG in a $200k+ car?’ and my answer is “why would you not want it if you are not giving anything up, in fact you are getting even more performance with the PHEV?”

    The only thing that is cautionary about the PHEV performance vehicles is that these are exceptionally complex cars with dual electrical systems (12v and 48v) and software that is the most extensive ever seen on a vehicle. I don’t think I will own one of these out of warranty.
     
  22. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Also good to run on electric for short trips where the engine wouldn't get up to operating temps for a decent time (20 min) and avoids wear and tear with frequent start-stop cycles.
     

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