Ferrari Roma - an outsider’s view on the hate from longtime Ferrari owners and fans | FerrariChat

Ferrari Roma - an outsider’s view on the hate from longtime Ferrari owners and fans

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by aepma, Feb 5, 2021.

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  1. aepma

    aepma Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Europe
    I’ve seen quite a bit of trashing on the Roma from some Ferrari enthusiasts ever since the car has been announced/launched (not this forum in particular, although there is some of that going on as well).

    It died down a bit once the first few reviews came out and started complimenting the car on it’s dynamic competence, but they seem to have returned more recently focusing on two main points:

    1 - iT DoEsn’t LoOk lIkE a rEAl FErRari!!
    2 - The user interface is messy

    So here is an outsider’s opinion on both those points.

    First a bit of context, I am a first time Ferrari owner, hoping to have my Roma delivered this April. So far in my life, I’ ve driven the California several times, as well as the F430 on the track, test drove the Roma twice, and test drove the SF90 quite agressively for 2 hours thanks to a very accommodating sales rep. So my experience with Ferraris is very limited and as such my opinion should be taken in that context.

    My car history for the past 20 years has been built around Porches and Jaguars exclusively , my current car is a Jaguar F-Type. I was close to buying either a Portofino, a DB11, or a Bentley Conti. Never pulled the trigger because they were lacking in one or other key aspect.

    So, to the points above:

    1 - Doesn’t look like a real Ferrari: Well, mate, i got news for you, in the last 20 years Ferraris haven’t looked like real Ferraris. If you actually look at all of Ferrari’s past models, this one is much more in tune with the historical design language than say an F8 Tributo.

    Ferraris up until the F355 were perceived as italian luxury. Truly well designed and svelt cars (couple of exceptions). Aston Martin actually created their design language based on Ferraris like the 133 and the 250GT that came out just before the DB3 and DB4 respectively.

    Even in the movies from that era, Ferraris were seen as GT/sport cars for the aristocratic elite.

    And in the recent “Ford vs Ferrari”, the 330 P3’s dead gorgeous looks are commented by the Ken Miles character (“if this were a beauty pageant...”).

    That’s how those cars were perceived. As works of art.

    So it’s only logical that some of us car enthusiasts were sitting on the sidelines waiting for a nice, well designed, GT Ferrari more in tune with that, rather than the brash transformer like machines of the past 20 years. Specially now, since Maserati has become an awful car brand that repurposes Chrysler spare parts, and Aston Martin keeps putting out infrequent and underwelming design updates to old formulas.

    2 - The infotainment is messy

    This would be a fair criticism for a Mercedes or an Audi. But for a Ferrari? A brand who hasn’t updated its infotainment system in 10 years? A brand that was dangerously coming close to being ignored by younger buyers (<40) because it didn’t have the tech that those buyers demanded? It’s just picking straws. The leap forward is gigantic, and it actually makes many of us relieved that the brand is finally investing im something that was severey lacking before and keeping us from jumping in.

    My overall feeling is that there is quite a bit of faux conservative snobbery involved. And the same way that the Cali and Portofino were savaged (not entirely without reason since they do lack real driving engagement) by the fan base, it appears that the same number is being tried on the Roma.

    The objective seems to be to desconsider new clients by categorizing the Roma as not a “real Ferrari”, the same way that the Boxter and the Cayman were not real Porsches although those cars have always been objectively more sporty and engaging than the regular 911.

    Change is hard, legacy Ferrari fans, like all
    hardcore communities, don’t like change, unless is to reinforce their own preconceptions about the brand.

    I get it, i’ve been there. But survival is adaptation and opportunity. The Roma represents both.

    Thank you for your time invested in reading my rant


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  2. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    Have you tried the infotainment systems in the F8, Lusso, Porto, 812 or 488? They are nothing like the old Calisystem you know.

    And aside from my F cars, there's also a Merc GT-R in the fold. I know what a decent infotainment system is. The Lusso and Porto work very well, and while they may not be as futuristic as the Roma, they are faster and more intuitive.

    The problem and what makes the Roma system problematic for many, a mess if you will, is the lack of response and fiddliness. It is so slow and the touch interface is really very poor. I was asked the other day how I felt about my SF90 coming with a system I had so poor regard for, and the answer is easy. It is not the same system, not even the same type of screens. It was meant as a bit of a stab at me because I expressed my opinion on the Roma system, i.e my opinion was thought to be a double standard as I think the SF90 works well for what it is. One needs time to get used to the touch screens, but at least in the SF90 they work a lot better.

    The Roma system is not even close to what Mercedes offer, so that's a poor comparison.

    Before you call the other systems out as 10 year old outdated systems, you need experience with them. I'll take the system in an 812, F8 or Lusso over the Roma system any day of the week. Might not be as new, but it works.

    Ferrari did not make a jump from the Cali to the Roma and then skip everything else. Just so that is made perfectly clear.

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  3. aepma

    aepma Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    I road tested both a Roma and an SF90 here in Europe in the beginning of January. Both systems behaved exactly the same. Not super lightning fast, but I wouldn’t called them “laggy” either.

    I was able to use everything and got the response I wanted. Not sure if people are judging the Roma’s system based on the very first pre-production base model reviews, or actually delivered client models.


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  4. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    So you waited for a Ferrari to come along that looked like a Jag. Good for you.
    Btw, the F8 has extremely similar design language going back nearly 50 years at Ferrari.
     
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  5. aepma

    aepma Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Assuming you are referring to the Dino 246 GT, I would say that the design language of that car is much more similar to the Roma than to the F8.

    Engine layout conditions but doesn’t define design language.


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  6. aepma

    aepma Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Saying that the Roma just looks like a Jag is again ignoring all of Ferrari’s history.
    Don’t take my word for it, just listen to the guy that designed the F430:





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  7. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    I was referring to the 308 made in ‘75. The point is the F8 is as much a part of Ferrari’s DNA as any other product line. To argue otherwise is pointless.
    Btw, I happen to like the exterior design of the Roma.
     
  8. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    I didn’t say “just looks like a Jag...,” I said it looks like a Jag, there is a difference.
    It looks like a Jag, but so what? Jags (and Astons) look nice.
     
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  9. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Well, so did I. And no, they did not behave exactly the same when I tested the SF90 a few weeks back.

    I base my Roma experience on actual production cars.
     
  10. aepma

    aepma Rookie

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    Agree to disagree


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  11. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Not only that, look at the Lusso and 812. Those bonnet lines for example, or the way the hips on the 812 flows. There's a lot of things in the modern lineup that is very much classic Ferrari.

    What I actually think is kind of opposite in this regard when it comes to the Roma is this. Back in the day, the Italians and Ferrari were very much a company that dictated what was new and "chic". Ferrari did something original, and the others followed. That's also why some Astons are so similar to what Ferrari did before. With the Roma I kind of see the opposite, and that is a bit disappointing. For me a car that looks like a Ferrari is in part a car that is very much its own a leader if you will. With the Roma I see a car that plays it safe - a very digestible design. I see a car that mimic a somewhat "generic" sports GT design for the masses. To me that is not very Ferrari, and probably why I don't think it looks like a Ferrari. It could be anything really, which I find boring.
     
  12. aepma

    aepma Rookie

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    If the Roma is not dictating new car design trends, why is it winning car design awards?

    Saying it looks “boring” is nonsensical. You might say it’s not “striking” the way a 812GTS is, but boring?

    Do you think that the 456 was boring?
    The 612? Those had even less style queues than the Roma. Would you call them generic?



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  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Winning a design award is not the same as it being the front runner in design.

    You know exactly what I mean by boring, so to call that nonsensical is nonsense too. A car does not have to be striking to be exciting. I often think some cars lose their appeal by become striking. The key for me is to have a striking angle but retain elegance. This is something I think Ferrari has mastered better than most. On the opposite end of the spectrum, modern Lamborghinis focus mostly on being striking. I'm not big on McLaren design, but I respect the fact that they are doing their own thing.

    I don't find the 456 very exciting to look at and the 612 was not my cup of tea. You were the one that brought up the style cues, not me. I'm just saying that Ferrari has always been about doing something different and original. It does not always work as well as they hoped and it does not have to incorporate previous design elements, but that's how it is. The Cali and F430 is probably another example of a polarizing design. So was the Lusso and the FF, just like the 612 you mention. A Ferrari does not become a real Ferrari because it looks like what a Ferrari used to look like. If you look at the cars we're talking about, they all have one thing in common. They are originals and that is a thing that has always been part of Ferraris design philosophy. I think the Roma strays away from that as it mimics what Jaguar, Aston and others have been doing for a while. I wonder if it wins some of its awards because it is not special enough and lacks originality.

    But like you said, agree to disagree.

    Enjoy your Roma.
     
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  14. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    @aepma

    Thanks for your thoughts. As you implied, new/different in the F line seems to spark strong feelings among the tifosi. Will you be DD-ing your Roma?

    I was wondering what you thought of the interior layout? To be honest, that was my biggest "turn off" with the Roma. I can live w/ exterior styling cues that I may not like because I drive my Ferrari, and can't see the outside from the driver's seat! Also, our F-car is a weekend fun car, so the HMI/tech is of little concern to me - just as long as it doesn't leave me stranded - since I don't take phone calls when driving, have no need for GPS, have only turned on my radio thrice in 5 years, etc.

    But, I found the new compartmentalized interior of the Roma to be a little confining, and not as "sporty" and inviting versus other F cars I have driven (Cali, Porto, F8S, 812 GTS). Our California is a sporty but luxurious places to be, and I just enjoy being in the car - either alone doing a bit of spirited driving or even piddling along in Auto/Comfort with the wife.

    Most importantly, congrats on your new Roma. Looks to be Azzurro California or Grigio Alloy from the avatar pic?

    T

    p.s. Tell us more about 2 hours behind the wheel of an SF90!
     
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  15. wrs

    wrs F1 World Champ
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    #15 wrs, Feb 5, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
    I love the look of my 812 from the rear and it's why I decided not to get the GTS because the coupe is just much better looking and more classic from the rear and the sides. The GTS also has the seams for the retractable roof which I think mess up the lines. I think the Roma looks good other than the grill and I think there are ways of dealing with that. My wife even wants a Roma but loves the Portofino for the top down driving. Here is my 812 parked opposed to the SLS which I also think is a great looking car but not as good as the 812.

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    Welcome to the Ferrari club and I am sure you will enjoy the Roma, it's a Ferrari.
     
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  16. aepma

    aepma Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Hey tomc!

    Thanks for the reply. I’ll start from the bottom and work my way to the top of your post.

    The SF90 is brutally fast. In a way that is very hard to explain in normal words. It definitely feels like a hybrid/electric drivetrain because of the way that the power is delivered. A cool feature is that you can choose to drive around in pure electric mode for a few miles, which is obviously a very surreal experience.

    Launch control is very different from any petrol engine car I’ve been in. Power delivery is very agressive right off the bat, with no wheel spin whatsover, torque is instantaneous, although as it goes through the rev range you do feel that there is a torque curve in there, albeith well desguised by the electric assistance.

    The interior felt exactly like the Roma.
    Suspension was very compliant.
    But it felt like quite a lower driving position.

    Going back to your question and speaking of the Roma interior, i was very satisfied with what I encountered. Felt it was a clear upgrade from my Jaguar F-Type. Way superior to Aston Martin DB 11. More sophisticated and well designed than a current Porsche (can’t comment on the Taycan). Much more exciting design than an AMG GT.

    And more importantly, way more ergonomic than the Portofino’s.

    The dial cockpit is something I’m very familiar with, and something passenger guests on my Jaguar always enjoyed.

    In the Roma, the fact that the passenger will have their own control screen will address the only complaint that this sort of layout usually generates.

    I liked the infotainment, a lot.

    But, and this is a big but, I am very tech inclined. And yes, the animations are not super smooth, and I’m hoping that this will be fixed either before mine is produced (during April) or in a post-production service update.
    I will miss the AC physical dials of my F-Type but that’s basically it.

    Everything else worked very well for me all the time. There are actually quite a bit of physical buttons in the steering wheel like volume and next/previous track(?) and It doesn’t bother me at all that the rest is touch screen activated. I enjiy voice activated systems and since I have an Iphone, I will be using carplay all of the time.

    I understand this might not suit less tech inclined customers. But it is what it is.

    And finally, I will be DDing my Roma. More specifically I move around a lot in southern europe and this will be my most important means of transportation. Airline travel sucks and will suck for a long time. And I will be doing something like 350 miles on the Roma every week for the time being, sometimes much morr.

    I will be using the Roma as a GT was meant to be used, across entire countries ))



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  17. aepma

    aepma Rookie

    Jul 24, 2013
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    Oh, one more thing I didn’t answer first time around.

    It is Azzurro California, with Crema interior and Blu stitching. I will post the full specs once I get the first production photos.


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  18. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I didn't really like the looks of the SF90 when it was introduced, but like it better w/ the roof/body the same color.

    BTW, there is a dedicated SF90 driving impressions thread. You should post up there. I am sure the F-chatters would love to hear about your first-hand thoughts. Few people seem to have gotten their hands on this beast as you have done.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/actual-driving-impressions-thoughts.632838/page-7#post-147712912

    T
     
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  19. Akajak1

    Akajak1 Karting

    Jun 24, 2020
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    When I drove the Roma, I disliked the chrome effect homage to the manual gate. I didn’t feel the iPad effect added much either. It certainly wasn’t aesthetically pleasing to me.
    But of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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  20. TifosiConch

    TifosiConch Karting

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    Thanks for the link, really helpful to understand the design cues and history behind them. I drive a Cali T and my best friend has an Aston V8 Vantage coupe. When both are parked in my driveway, I really think his is the more beautiful car with it's flowing lines and gorgeous tail. When the Roma pulled up for me to test, I found it breathtaking, with it's sharp, vicious grill and lines that eclipse those of my friend's Vantage, so it instantly became a superstar to my eye. To the casual observer, it may be similar to the Jag F-type or Aston, but I think Ferrari nailed the details and the car stands apart.
     
  21. XSpeed

    XSpeed Formula Junior

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    Roma looks very nice in real life by the way.

    99% of the casual observer does not know what aston martin looks like. same with Jaguar F. They see a nice car, they like it. They see the Ferrari badge, they like it more.
     
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  22. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Congratulations, great insights. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
     
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  23. JonnySK

    JonnySK Karting

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    I'm still waiting to see one in person, but the Roma is certainly not a bad looking car. Seems that younger tifosi see it as derivative of Aston or Jag, yet older ones (and professional designers like Frank S) see it as a return to the classically beautiful Ferraris (from which Aston and Jag took design cues).

    My gripe with the Roma - and this is entirely personal preference - is that the Millennium Falcon interior doesn't suit the character of the timeless GT car exterior. I'm fine with the same interior in the SF90 - the cutting edge, state of the art Ferrari (although the central screen looks bulky and awkward IMO) - but I would want the interior of the Roma to be more Rolex than Apple Watch.

    I guess the Roma is aimed at younger, first-time F buyers, who demand tech and screens, so I suppose the 'timeless' interior I desire would miss the point.

    Interested to see the Roma buyers' age range broken down. I'm a younger buyer, but it's the mid (rear) engined cars that do it for me the most.
     
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  24. RamsHmb

    RamsHmb Formula 3
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    I think

    I think you make some good/interesting points. Overall I am thrilled w mine but I get the point about the Rolex versus Apple Watch. I am a mechanical watch kind of person. I appreciate the craftsmanship. Current owner and 48 ;)
     
  25. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I certainly understand where you're coming from. I think Ferrari is just moving where the industry is since everyone has gone digital.

    Would it have made sense to stay analog? I agree it would be at the very least a distinctive differentiation remain 'old school.' I mean, you have very high-end Tube Amps, the most exclusive Watches, and some avant-garde filmmakers eschew digitization.

    However, my mea culpa goes to the root and soul of Ferrari (optimized by their ticker) - that is Formula 1.

    Here is the latest F1 steering wheel:
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    Although, looking at it - at least there are knobs right?

    haha
     
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