Where to start with Private Jet / Personal Jet | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Where to start with Private Jet / Personal Jet

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by 2tall4economy, Feb 17, 2015.

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  1. sigar

    sigar F1 Rookie
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  2. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    Five blade props always look great, like a MkXIV Spitfire.
     
  3. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If the Meridian works for you and you don't mind the single engine thing, they are a great airplane.

    Personally, I spend a lot of time flying over mountains and fairly inhospitable terrain, and I like two engines. And two TPE-331s cost about the same to operate as one PT6.
     
  4. sigar

    sigar F1 Rookie
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    #54 sigar, Feb 13, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
    Don, TPE-331s are great! But, unfortunately you can’t get them on a modern platform, can you? I’ve got a bit of a mental hang up with buying a plane that is over about 25 years old. I’d love to own a modern day C-441. But, I have a hard time accepting paying well over $1M for the 35+ year old ones.

    Regarding the single engine thing, the Meridian has the best glide performance of any non-glider aircraft. 17.4:1 It climbs at double it’s glide gradient (About 750’/nm vs. 350’/nm) and at typical cruise altitudes you have about an 80nm glide range. There are very few moments when I am out of glide range of a suitable runway. The trade off is that I have no good options in the event of an engine failure for about the first 40 seconds after rotation. But, when an off airfield forced landing is inevitable a 61kt stall speed allows for a much more survivable “landing” than all comparable twins. Add to the mix that I’m not certain I would perform perfectly in the event of an engine failure upon takeoff in a twin and it gets really blurry tying to distinguish whether a single or twin TURBINE is safer. I emphasized turbine because there is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that a single engine turbine is safer than a piston twin.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Odds of having an engine failure double in a twin, but the seriousness is about half. Turbines are really reliable, at any rate, main reason they were banned at Indianapolis.

    17.4:1 is phenomenal. Nothing I ever flew would glide much at all except the F-16D and you had to get that on the ground in a hurry before you ran out of rocket propellant. Everything else had two engines.
     
  6. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Fair enough. The only OEMs using the 331 in new aircraft these days are military, because they care more about low total cost of ownership than up front purchase price.

    The beauty of the 331s is that I can fly 300 knots on 420pph in an airplane which can carry 7 people and all their bags, has a 5000 hour (potentialy 7000) TBO, and I can climb better than 1,000fpm with one engine shut down.

    The downside is that, as you pointed out, you can't get that in a new, or newish, airframe.

    When I did my recurrent training, they tried to talk me into 5-blade props. We'll see... probably not for me, but you never know.

     
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  7. RudyP

    RudyP Formula Junior
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    I'm not a mathematician but are you sure that's a 5 blade prop?

    Just kidding, I get that you're saying this is an older picture - looks great!
     
  8. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    Before we purchased our Meridian, we looked closely at Tubo Commanders, King Airs, Cheyannes and a couple of others and decided for our 90% mission, a single engine turboprop would be the best fit. We rarely ever travel with others and our typical trip is under 800nm. Another issue is the wingspan had to be under 45' as that's our hangar size. We managed to find a low hour 2010 (G1000) for right at our budget.

    It's all about the mission.
     
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  9. sigar

    sigar F1 Rookie
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    #59 sigar, Feb 13, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
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    5-blade in all her glory.

    Don, I'm not sure how the 5-blade performs on the Commander, but on the Meridian the performance is about same as stock at low elevations/cold temps. It shines at hot and high conditions. At least 100fpm better climb which I can verify and they claim 20% less takeoff roll, but I haven't noticed such an improvement. I upgraded because I got a good deal, I was looking at a nearly $15k overhaul on my 4-blade and I saved 16#s of useful load, which matters in the Meridian. I don't think you'd find it's merits worthwhile on the Commander.
     
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  10. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    We're looking at that ourselves. Seems like a worthy upgrade. Besides, it looks so cool. That's worth about $20k right there.
     
  11. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
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    Did make a typo in the glide ratio, is a Meridian really 17.4:1?? My piston PA-46 was 12:1 or about 60 miles from 25k.

    I always thought a Pilatus PC-12 at 16:1 was king of the single engine glide ratio
     
  12. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    The prop on a pt6 can be fully feathered and that makes a huge difference over a piston. It's over 15:1 but don't know the exact number.
     
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  13. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    From what I have been told, the Commander loses about 5-10 knots of speed but gets better takeoff performance, which is not that useful since the 980 already has amazing takeoff performance.

    However, the real benefit has nothing to do with performance-- it is the reduction in noise and vibration.

     
  14. sigar

    sigar F1 Rookie
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  15. sigar

    sigar F1 Rookie
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    I didn’t notice a big difference in noise or vibration. I had it dynamic balanced too.


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  16. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
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    That's really close to the piston pa-46
     
  17. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    [QUOTE="2tall4economy, post: 143737138, member: 170012" what pilot education I should get, licensing, etc... to plan something?

    I know what I can afford and when, but I haven't got a clue what operating costs are for various types of private jet (charter/share) are out there and what to expect in terms of which class of plane I can target if I go full ownership (and if I own, I would expect to pilot it).

    At this point I'm focused mostly on the regulatory ...
    [/QUOTE]

    I will only address the licensing issues.

    First, you will need a private pilot's license (Single Engine Land or SEL). The minimum required logged hours (instruction and solo) to take the flight test is 35. You can take the written test anytime. I highly recommend you obtain an instrument rating and always file and fly an instrument flight plan. Shoot ILS approaches even in clear weather for the practice. Also, shoot VOR approaches as some airports do not have a localizer and glideslope. If you only are able to fly VFR, you are either going to have to postpone trips or roll the dice like Kobe's pilot. There are rocks in clouds. A multi-engine license is required if you intend to fly an A/C with multiple engines. Depending on the type of aircraft you intend to fly you may need a type certification. You also need to take a physical once every two years, every year if you get a commercial license, and every 6 months if you obtain an ATP.

    The cost to do all this varies greatly depending on where you plan on obtaining the training, and whether you use an FAA Certified Flight Instructor, or attend an FAA Certified flight school.

    As for the A/C, there are mandatory inspections that must be conducted by an FAA licensed A&P mechanic. There is also minimum required equipment such as a transponder (Mode-C). A flight director and autopilot are desirable. DME is a must as are at least two VOR receivers.

    Expect to spend about $10,000 (minimum) to get licensed and certified. Much more if you need a type rating since you'll need at least 10 hours in type before you can take a check ride. Imagine renting a G-6 for 12 hours (you must fly to and from the check ride and it takes about an hour).

    More pilots are killed in a multi-engine aircraft that loses the critical engine than are killed in single-engine airplanes that lose their only engine. If you go multi-engine piston or turboprop, go for counter-rotating engines.

    Ray
     
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  18. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    #68 EastMemphis, Feb 14, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
    I spent ~$20k on my instrument rating years ago. A lot of the cost to get a PPL and other ratings depends on the airspace you train in. The more complex the airspace, the higher your costs will be as you'll spend lots of wasted hours waiting your turn, all while the engine is running. You can shave some of these costs by training in your own aircraft.

    A big killer cost is insurance. The less hours you have, the more your insurance is going to cost. Hull rates are around 1-2% and can be double or even unavailable for lower time pilots. Your first inquiry before even thinking about getting a complex pressurized aircraft should be to see if you can even get insurance. Rates have skyrocketed in the last couple years because of people with too little experience and too much money buying too much aircraft and crashing very quickly.

    I would suggest looking at a Cirrus brand as they have among the lowest insurance cost for a modern aircraft that can actually go places. Get your first 500 hours in a single engine piston and then consider something more complex.
     
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  19. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    On a single, that doesn't surprise me. On the Commander, the 5 blade props are shorter, and thus further from the cabin. Since they are shorter, the prop tip speeds are also lower. All of that reduces the noise and vibration, but again, on a single I don't think you would notice it.
     
  20. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,722
    Santa Monica, CA
    Fry's is now out of business as of today: https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/24/business/frys-electronics-closure/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=fbbusiness&utm_term=link&utm_content=2021-02-24T18%3A31%3A21&fbclid=IwAR2XCI5sC4Nbp4BAZCpYUyyVxebtiaurYjdisU4uEIRAaYFmHceylW8UXQs
     
  21. RudyP

    RudyP Formula Junior
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    I saw that this morning.. Sad tale. I remember how cool Fry's was in 1999 when I was a summer intern in the Bay Area. I used to go to two of the local stores frequently and they were nerd heaven - amazing inventory, huge stores, a lot of energy and buzz. I hadn't been inside one for a couple of decades until I randomly went into the Santa Clara store last week (we recently moved to the Bay Area) and it was just depressing... No one around, bare shelves or just cheap trinket type stuff...
     
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