The real F40 with VIN 90969? (2nd is 85397)

The serial number or $$$ number?


May the Horse be with you

 

Relevant to illustrate an issue which have been highlighted with this thread, we still don't know for sure if the blue F40 had a Red Book or not. (?)

Not a Sharknose but there's at least one 156/63 in existence. Also there are two 156 Sharknose very accurate replicas in existence with original engines and gearboxes. One with a 65 degree engine and one with a 120 degree engine. Then the Chris Rea "La Passione" copy which is not as accurate.

So with what this thread have shown and the one about the infamous P3/4 0846 "replica" there is reason to make sure that any such copies/replicas
cannot possible be "authenticated" some time in the future, say 20-30 years from now. I hope Maranello will do their best to iron out any possible loopholes.

 

Truth is, there could be copies out there but they’ll never be 100% complete. Just like the blue car, it’s missing the right assembly number, right engine number and right gearbox number. It’s clear which car is genuine and which one is not.

 

Does your post suggest then that having now had a good look around the red car, that it has been built up from those components you list, into a chassis and body etc which may not be original to that VIN?

Is it that elements of 90969 could in fact be spread over a variety of examples including the blue one? but the greater majority are together within the red car?

 

That's an interesting point too Paul500. Maybe we'll never get to the bottom of this story, and how this ch.no. ended up on two cars?
Going back in this thread, two posts indicates that the numbers add up on the red example. Posts #5 and #55

But seeds of doubts have been sown regarding Classiche certifications since it was claimed that the blue car had a Red Book too?
This might not have been the case, or was it a "misunderstanding"? Or was it based on a dodgy test!? Even a faked Red Book can't been ruled out. (??)

I was surprised a Classiche certification could be carried out in the way it is. Can a dealer then carry out a certification on a car they are selling?
Then Maranello rubber stamps it and issues the book based on photographs, statements and a report from the dealer/technician who carried it out??

I apologise if I have misunderstood, but the system doesn't seem watertight, like with many other things!

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

 

When looking at the stars left and right of the chassis number, all tree cars (red OZ, blue UK and Japanese in 2012) look wrong. Distance between stars and marks, position of the upper point of the star, size of the stars...

 

Question;

What happened with the guys that were running F40 Registers?

There was a chap in the UK that claimed to have in excess of 1,200 cars at one stage?

Surely this may help??

 

I know a chap in Switzerland that has all the data.
See post #5.
Unfortunately the UK dealer with the blue car has now gone completely silent and doesn't reply to inquiries. At least not to mine.
The statement that the blue car in the UK was red book certified was apparently a "misunderstanding".

What is needed:
Photo showing the current body number on door hinges of the red car in AUS.
Photos showing all numbers (engine, gearbox and body) of the blue car in the UK.
Photos showing that "red book certification binder" of the blue car in the UK.

PS: Classiche in Maranello is aware of the current "turbulences" re this/these vehicle(s).

Marcel Massini

 

A number of people maintain private databases that might very well have complete data of most F40's. Some in Telaio Group, for starters. Anyway I'm confident Marcel has already shared any relevant info he might have or might have found regarding the current mystery. Next relevant bits should come I guess from those actually involved with the car(s), not from registries or databases.

 

I hear that this Swiss chap is very knowledgeable and I tend to agree.

I would really like to know what the chassis number of the crashed Japanese driven car in the NT was. This intrigues me.

It looks as though the red car in Sydney was red booked officially and the blue car given that it was claiming to be 90969 stated it has a red book as 90969 officially does.

I mean what better way to try and trick the world when the blue car is trying to be 90969, follow through with the fraud and give it some substance!!

The question that remains is whether they were owned by the same person in Melbourne and one of them being crashed was repaired to clone the 90969 to save on taxes and to also get away from the smell of a horrific accident.

I too reached out to the dealer and I have not received a response.....


May the Horse be with you

 

Hey guys has there been any up dates and does any know the vin of the cannonball car

 

Interesting first post.........

Marcel Massini

 

The spoiler, this is how the pic has been sent to me. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

pm me

 

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Given I already know the body number should be 356, I can see it in that grainy picture. I am assuming that is the end of the central part of the rear spoiler, I have inspected a few of these and they are never that clear at the best of times, especially if the car has been painted, which you have openly declared has happened with your car.

The numbers are lightly hand scribed, there was no machine stamping on this part, hence why they are not that obvious. There is absolutely no consistency in the font or style used, as it would have been done by multiple employees.

 

its also clearer when i look at his picture on my phone rather than the laptop

 

Suggest a good and clear photo showing the body number stamped in the door hignes (especially the right one).

Marcel Massini

 

just in case anyone wonders what we are looking at, or trying to see, I have highlight the impression i see
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*hinges, I meant to write.

Marcel Massini

 

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Haha yes! Usually the team takes the photographs! Tried to take it as close as possible and now I feel really bad scrapping the paint away

 

Lee, I think you have done a great job, and proven your point.

For me I can again see 356.

Of course the car has had paint over the years, you have openly declared it has had a full respray, nothing wrong with that. So many F40's have had paint, particularly a car that has been used and covered a few miles as Enzo intended.
Then of course the market value exploded and they became worth multiples of their previous value - sure the owners are going to polish them up, paint where necessary, to return them to their former glory to maximise value.
A car body shop guy is always going to apply more paint to the cavities, crevasses and recesses of a car when painting it - their job is to get a perfect finish on the large visible panels, the paint over spray builds up on areas like hinges, those areas are difficult to access and flatten back, so the easy thing to do is mask your finished panel areas and apply more paint to get a smooth finish - hence why you have had to sand your car to find the number, it will be the same all over the car.

You have demonstrated you have the original Classiche red book, shown recent photos of the correct chassis and assembly number / the engine, gearbox and internal number, you have clearly shown / now you have had to dismantle your car and sand back areas to show the body number.

Not many people would go to this extent on an open forum, but you have done it because throughout this thread there has been an under current of rumours and hints from members that this is a problem car, its almost as if people wanted it to be the Cannonball car - which for me you have proven it not to be.

And all this time we have not heard a single thing from the vendor of the blue F40 or the current owner (or any previous owner). 100% they are aware of this thread, as they have been contacted on numerous occasions, so I can guarantee they are watching and reading every single word that is printed here - and still nothing.

Well done Lee, I cant see what more you can do, you have supplied what has been asked, and I don't think it is necessary to strip back any more of your F40 and sand away areas of paint - for what the satisfaction of a few keyboard warriors!