Sodium filled valves | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Sodium filled valves

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by larryg, Dec 26, 2016.

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  1. JohnnyRay

    JohnnyRay F1 Rookie
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    If this is true, then I would be led to believe that it is not so important to rotate the engine during short (less than 6 month) storage in order to periodically change relative spring tension? Any other thoughts on short term storage?
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Keep the battery charged. Keep mice from eating the electrical harness.
     
  3. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Might be worth contacting the guy in the 308 section who's getting a group buy on theirs. They might be able to match the 400 series.

    Out of interest, are all 400's fitted with these or just specific years?
     
  4. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
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    Bugtussle
    Do the sodium filled valves respond to magnets at all or are they non-ferrous?
     
  5. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    Dec 23, 2007
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    North Pole AK
    I was just thinking the same thing. By the way why is stainless steel used for valves?
     
  6. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    They OE Ferrari valves are all carbon steel
     
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Many but not all US made replacement valves are stainless but many stainless alloys have some degree of carbon steel so a magnet will stick.
     
  9. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    The same elements in stainless steel grades that allow the material to be hardened are the same elements that cause corrosion. Leave a stainless steel knife in the rain and it will rust as it's made from 400 series stainless.
     
  10. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
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    Bugtussle
    Thanks very much for the info, Brian.
     
  11. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
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    Under what driving circumstances do these valves come apart?
    Is it a function of high RPM or inevitable with time and miles?
    Greg
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    No pattern.
     
  13. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    are these valve failures assoc with any other issues such as other items wearing or misadjustments?
     
  14. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Brian,

    I have noted an empirical pattern that may or may not be accurate. The pattern I observed is that there appears to be a much higher probability of a sodium valve failure after recent cylinder head rebuilds where the original valves were recut and/or new seats installed. Presumably the increased thermal gradients across the sodium valves (via it being recut and/or the new seats) precipitated the valve failure? These days I cannot imagine anyone would reuse the original sodium valves during a cylinder head rebuild and so my observed pattern may be moot.

    As I said... this was a pattern that I happened to notice.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    There may be an increase but I have certainly seen quite a few failures absent of those circumstances.
     
  16. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Brian,

    Absolutely and I fully agree. My only point was that I noticed that a very high percentage who had a head rebuild (recut valves , seats, etc) and maintained the sodium valves had a failure. As I said, my comment is not scientific and simply an observation that could be completely out to whack.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    That could very well be and would be interesting to know with certainty but at this point for reasons you already gave I suspect all we can do is theorize and speculate.
     
  18. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
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    Digging up this old chestnut again as I've got my heads off to try and determine if I have sodium exhaust valves or not.

    How do you tell without cutting one open? I assume that the solid valve weighs more but I don't have one to compare with. Stamped above the collet groove on the valves is 'EL 107082 H' is that any indication of what type of valve is fitted? The Superformance website says their valves are tipped with 12H and 6H stellite, I imagine that is what the H indicates, not sure about what EL indicates. Hopefully someone with a bit more experience than me can shed some light on this. Cheers

    Sent from my SM-G935F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  19. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    107082 is the Ferrari reference for the "stock" valve. If these valves do carry the original Ferrari references, I would tend to believe these are the sodium valves.
    Will try to see if I still have the original valves, and will let you know. At £40, I would not take a chance.

    As a side note, @samsaprunoff is probably onto something: my car had suffered from cylinder head failure so the head had been overhauled. Valve broke shortly after. So shortly after that we had a not so pleasant discussion with my (former) mechanic...
     
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  20. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
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    True about the p/n, but superformance list their solid valves with the same p/n despite the difference, that’s why I was curious about what the EL & H stamped on the valve indicate. I definitely won’t be taking the chance, the unknown valves is why I pulled the heads. £40 per valve is fine, but if I don’t have to spend it I’m happy to keep the money too. The Aussie peso exchange rate makes these things add right up!


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  21. larryg

    larryg Karting

    Jun 30, 2004
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    I don't recall any numbers stamped into mine but I did find this picture that shows the difference in the machining where the stem meets the head of the valve. New is on the right.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  22. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    Dec 23, 2007
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    This is just a wild guess. The solid valve is stainless steel and therefore nonferrous so a magnet won’t stick but it would stick to the older sodium filled?
     
  23. roger21

    roger21 Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2015
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  24. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2013
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    I finally got around to cleaning up one of my original valves which I believe to be a sodium filled one and compared it's weight to a Superformance solid valve.

    My original has the number EL 107082 K on it and weighs 72 grams (measured on the missus cheap kitchen scales so read into this what you may).
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    The Superformance solid valve Part no. V1215006 weighs 82 grams on the same scales.
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  25. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2013
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    I should also mention that I checked these with a strong magnet and the Superformance solid valve Part no. V1215006 is mildly attracted to the magnet all over.

    My original with the number EL 107082 K on it is a different story though -
    The head is mildly attracted to the magnet (bit more than the new valve though)
    The middle of the valve stem was not attracted to the magnet
    And the collet area of the stem was very attracted to the magnet.

    Cheers,
    Al
     
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