Help me decide - Performante or F12 from a value-retention perspective | FerrariChat

Help me decide - Performante or F12 from a value-retention perspective

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by dlopez001, Feb 2, 2021.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

?

If interested in "value retention" should I move from my 2018 Huracan Performante to a 2015 F12?

  1. Yes - Go for the F12

    66.7%
  2. No - Keep the Performante

    33.3%
  1. dlopez001

    dlopez001 Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2007
    908
    CA
    Full Name:
    DL
    Folks,

    I have an opportunity to swap from Performante to F12 at "even money". I am not asking for opinions to compare the cars characteristics - I enjoy both hardcore sportscars as well as GTs. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so I won't ask about that either.

    Mine is more a question of value 1-2 years from now. The Performante will likely be at 20k miles and the F12 will likely at 12k miles.

    If I wanted to stay with the car which will have held its value more (i.e. depreciated less, and therefore I would theoretically be able to sell it for more), should I keep the Performante or switch to an F12???

    Cheers,
    DL
     
  2. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 19, 2006
    16,112
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    I suspect the F12 is more depreciated at this point and thus closer to its floor. My crystal ball is fuzzy however.
     
  3. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    24,957
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Ryan Alexander
    What's the situation for the sales taxes? If it's a straight across trade is there no sales tax?
     
    DOWORKFCAR likes this.
  4. dlopez001

    dlopez001 Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2007
    908
    CA
    Full Name:
    DL
    I believe and am verifying that there is no real tax implication. It’s on lease, and it would be a simple “asset swap” with a simple, low cost transaction fee.
     
    ryalex likes this.
  5. blkfxstc

    blkfxstc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2016
    767
    TX
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I think the F12 will retain value better over time.
     
  6. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2004
    684
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Stan
    The F12 value has been pretty stable for the last 4-5 years, if/when the 812’s move into the upper $200k range I think the F12 is due for a $20k drop across the board. I think the delta between the 2 models, from newest F12 to oldest 812 with similar miles, should be $70-80k, maybe more.
     
  7. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    Fair question, but maybe not the most crucial one. Instead, I think the most important question is which would you enjoy more?
     
  8. 350MH83

    350MH83 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2014
    1,104
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Max
    F12 is quite closer to the bottom of the curve in my opinion. Performante is a nice car, but there might be more offering in that category, so I would imagine it tanks more in the future.
     
  9. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East
    Both cars have their appeal and no one can tell you for sure which will retain value better. I do agree the F12 is near the floor but the 812 is coming down fast. With the Perf there are just so many variants of this car however the perf (to me) is a special car and perhaps a long term keeper.
     
    Coincid and Boomhauer like this.
  10. Evo X

    Evo X Karting

    Jun 16, 2018
    124
    Chicago
    Keep the Perf and get an 812 once prices come down. F12 will feel like a step back imo.
     
    Boomhauer likes this.
  11. gilly6993

    gilly6993 Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2009
    2,475
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Question. And maybe I’m not thinking correctly. The car is on lease. The bank owns it. How do you trade a car you don’t own and buy something and not pay taxes?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. dlopez001

    dlopez001 Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2007
    908
    CA
    Full Name:
    DL
    I go through Premier, and they said it’s an even “asset swap” and a $995 fee, assuming the cars have the same price. I suspect there is probably another $100 worth of DMV fees for transfers (both cars have current registrations).

    DL
     
  13. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    The Performante is a much more special car....the F12 is a great car in a long line of great V12 front engine cars. I think long term Perf all the way.....in the short term, it might be a toss up depending on miles, spec, maintenance costs, etc.

    I don't think you lose either way.
     
    Gh21631, Coincid and Thecadster like this.
  14. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2011
    2,421
    USA
    Full Name:
    Max
    aren't Perfs INcreasing in value at present (yes). Are f12s? I don't know.
     
  15. nickorette

    nickorette Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2017
    341
    Canada
    Perfs are going up. From value perspective, I'd stick with Perf. Best choice would be to get both tho, F12 would compliment Perf nicely
     
    Shark01 likes this.
  16. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    I'm not sure that the Performante will age very well. It does not have much going for it in terms of having a designer name to it. It has a Nordschleife record which aside from being questionable at best, has long since been forgotten and surpassed. It's a car that has been replaced alrwady in many ways, and aside from that alleged lap time, it has very little to its name. The regular F12 has no records etc. but it has,the Pinin badge and an engine that will always be very coveted. The F12 is much older than the Perf. yet it strikes me as less "forgotten". Lambo is already moving on to different things with the 2wd Evo and the STO, trying to cater to the more driver focused audience.

    My thought is that the F12 has made much more of an mark, and much more of a name for itself.

    Now go over to the Lambo forum and ask this, and you will of course hear that the Perf. is much better etc.

    But from an as objective standpoint as I can take, no, I don't expect the Lambo to age well. None of its older siblings aged well either.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    350MH83 likes this.
  17. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    You claim that your musings are coming from an “objective standpoint”, but that I don’t think that could be further from the truth. It reads like any number of other subjectively negative Lamborghini posts, complete with tired tropes, and nearly forgotten cliches. During your “objective review” of the Performante, you conclude that it won’t “age very well”, doesn’t have a “designer name to it”, been “replaced already in many ways”, has “very little to its name”, and is “forgotten”. I know you to be a reliable Ferrari advocate, but you don’t need to make claims that Lamborghini is bad, in order to prove that Ferrari is good.

    First of all, Performante owners do not attach much value to the ‘Ring record, rather it’s the ‘Ring performance that reassures. You see for years, Lamborghini was somewhat mocked for being all show and no go. And even the most ardent fans had to concede that from a pure performance standpoint, the cars simply could not compete with Ferrari. This was particularly true at the track. Fast forward, to the HP ‘Ring success, and for the very first time, Lamborghini had an objectively better performer than it’s closest Ferrari competitor. Indeed, many years later, that’s still the case, as I don’t think anyone would suggest that a Pista would beat a Performante driven by the same driver on the same day. It was not the record (dubious as you claim) that was important, it was what it meant symbolically. Lamborghini had finally arrived, if somewhat belatedly. On that basis, Performante holds a unique position in the minds of many Lamborghini enthusiasts.

    At this point, it’s probably worth mentioning that I owned a F12 before I acquired my 812, and I think it’s an automotive bargain, as it accomplishes 85-90% of what the 812 does, for about 60-65% of the money. I can’t say anything bad about the car, and my love for the V12 is well-documented. I also currently own a Performante and have for 39 months since I bought it new. I have an STO that will be here in September, and I have no intention of replacing the Performante. I think the cars are sufficiently different to justify both.

    A couple other items to consider, the price delta between the STO and Performante will likely be around $150,000. That alone will be keep the Performante relevant along with helping to buttress it’s value. What’s more, the production run on the Performante was quite low. I have mentioned in other threads, that, at any given moment, there are more Speciale’s for sale than Performante’s. I think that speaks to both its relatively scarcity, and its relative popularity. Furthermore, I can say that within Lamborghini circles, the Huracan is still very much relevant and loved, and the Performante enjoys an even more esteemed position. It’s also very much a driver’s car. I’m keeping mine because I much prefer to drive it on cold, winter roads than any of my other cars.

    Ultimately both are great cars, and I think a strong case can be made that both cars have much less downside cost the next 3 years than certainly what they have experienced the last 3 years. Moreover, going forward, they both are pinnacle (or at least near-pinnacle) ICE cars that will mark the end of an incredible era of super cars. That is why I said in my earlier post on the subject that the choice should largely come down to which car you would enjoy more, as they both provide vastly different driving experiences.
     
    racerx0911, Fastmd, JesseRohr and 6 others like this.
  18. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Those who are most biased often are the loudest in proclaiming their impartiality.
     
    Fastmd, JesseRohr, nickorette and 2 others like this.
  19. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    One thing you need to remember when we are talking about my likes and dislikes regarding Lamborghini and being objective in this context. I don't normally pull punches when it comes to talking about the flaws I think the F12 has. I very much prefer the 812, both from a visual design standpoint and how it drives. In this context I don't see myself as very biased.

    In this case my option truthfully that I don't think the Perf. will age that well. I think the STO is very different in this regard. But part of it has to do with the fact that Lamborghini releases a ton of versions based on the same model, and in the end that always seem to drive prices down.
    Just look at the Gallardo. What has happened to all of the Super Leggeras, Balbonis and what not? I don't see them anywhere, and never hear anyone talk about them. That's why I say that I think the Performante shares a similar fate down the line. This was not a stab at Lambo, this was an honest guess at how it might turn out. None of us have a crystal ball, so we don't know. The F12 has probably reached close to bottom, so there's not a ton of speculation to be done there, but I think it's very difficult to say what the Performante will do, and for me the best thing is to look at how its predecessors have faired.

    As for my dislike towards Lambo. Well, that's not quite as simple of a subject. I'm actually not against Lambo, and I like some of their cars very much. I think they have gone astray more than anything, and that's why I currently am not on board with them. When the STO debuted, I really was very pleased to see it, because I felt that it was the kind of car we needed to see from them. For the first time in a long time I was actually quite excited about what they have going on, because that to me showed that someone at Lambo had a profound interest in driving. I would like to see them move more towards drivers cars again and away from just being about flash and noise. That is my opinion on what Lamborghini has become. Since the Miura it was always very in.your-face and flamboyant, but for many years it retained class and style. I think a lot of that really was lost in the 2000's, and in many ways the Huracan and all the "batmobile" releases did nothing to improve this image. I love the Diablo and Countach, and I have high praise for the Murci, so it's not about being anti-Lambo.

    Just my opinion.

    Now as far as your suggestion that it very much comes down to what one prefers, I completely agree. Both cars have their place and have a lot to offer. As always, the best value is the car that you enjoy the most.
     
    350MH83 likes this.
  20. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    Fair enough, I do not think it especially useful to compare Performante’s to Balboni’s and the like. By all accounts, Lamborghini’s in general, and Performante’s in particular, have taken quantum leaps since then. Curious, how much seat time do you have in a Performante? It’s pretty phenomenal. Every time I cram myself into the cabin, it’s an event from start to finish.
     
    JesseRohr and Coincid like this.
  21. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    +1000.....we know this is a Ferrari forum, but the anti-other choices rhetoric plays into the old Ferrari stereotype and isn’t a good look.

    I admit it, I own a late model Diablo....and it would run rings around every late 90s production Ferrari, and was even used in a successful racing team.

    So the “all show no go” crap....is just that, crap.

    F12 as I replied is a great car, while the Perf. had some groundbreaking elements that have moved newer designs forward.

    But even as a Lamborghini owner, I will admit the first generation of Audi cars Gallardo and Murcielago....were not particularly inspiring
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  22. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    That was then, this is now. With the introduction of the Huracan models, Lamborghini has legitimately entered the field of high performance super cars. The Performante is a special car.
     
    Fastmd, JesseRohr and Thecadster like this.
  23. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    But even “then”, the Miura, Countach, and Diablos were always on par or better with Ferrari production model performance. Audi just stumbled out of the box in their first attempt.
     
    Thecadster and Coincid like this.
  24. xBox

    xBox Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2018
    515
    The Emerald Isle
    My vote is to keep the Performante, as I don't think it faces as much depreciation pressure from the newer EVO, as the F12 does from the 812.
     
    Thecadster and Coincid like this.
  25. gliazzurri

    gliazzurri Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2016
    326
    Maryland
    The Performante is absolutely and undeniably a driver’s car. Anything suggested otherwise is conjecture and not based on experience.

    As to the all show, the styling of the brand is different. This is fundamentally the same generalization if we were to say Ferrari is an overly classic styled car that is not cutting edge in design. Some truths but not really accurate. The lambo brand is not just a special wrapper exterior on a vehicle but an iconic style that is incontrovertibly related to brand identity.
     
    nickorette, Thecadster and Coincid like this.

Share This Page