The real F40 with VIN 90969? (2nd is 85397)

If a car no longer conforms to the defined criteria than it should lose its certification, which is the reason why Classiche requires annual recertification.

Regardless, there is clearly something array with that ghastly, vandalized blue car. I would highly doubt that Classiche certified it under its current spec. Hopefully someone returns it back to its proper livery.

 

So in effect the validity of a red book or any recent recertification is nullified moments after it is issued anyway, so any buyer should never put any trust in one when provided at the point of sale unless its factored into the purchase that it is recertified just before the funds are transferred.......and even that is not a guarantee that the same thing could not be happening somewhere else in the world for that same VIN!

I get that it is a comfort thing for an existing owner, but it should not be relied on by any buyers.

 

What you’re referencing is so unusual and extraordinary. Certainly, are there a handful of people that are so motivated to alter their cars’ specification right after receiving Classiche Certification? I suppose there are those. Why they would, I don’t know. But, how incredibly rare is that? What’s Ferrari supposed to do? Weekly required inspection? These are the same people that complain that Ferrari requires an annual inspection in the first place. At some point honor plays a role. And, if I’m buying a car that’s been certified, I’d be a fool not to verify that it remains so.

 

Here in the UK we have an annual roadworthy inspection called an MOT, it is not unusual for car dealers to have spare sets of wheels and tyres, exhausts with cats fitted etc which they put on cars which would otherwise fail those inspections.

Once a cert is received, the non complaint parts are re fitted and the car sold with a fresh annual MOT! I have heard of the same thing happening quite often at certification/recertification time for Classiche.

There are plenty of pics out there of Ferrari cars proudly displaying their red book alongside pics of the same car on aftermarket wheels and sports exhausts!

Unless an owner plans to sell their car very soon, it makes no financial sense to either get their car certified/recertified, its simply a nice trinket to have. Their money their choice, we are talking its validity, or lack of at the point of sale here with these two F40s.

 

See here: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing-four-die-in-desert-road-race-1438457.html

Paul

 

Again, I’m sure there are some (very few) cases where this happens. A lot of trouble to go through annually for recertification. Does it happen? Again, I’m sure there are some out there. But, as I stated, it’s rather easy to review the Classiche criteria and determine if a car you’re considering buying is valid or not. As for the blue car. As I stated, there’s obviously something way off.

 

Cannonball Run, Australia.
Title translates into: "Automobile crazyness on public roads, four killed in Australia!"
This is a Swiss newspaper report dated 25 May 1994. The fatal crash happened on 24 May 1994.

Marcel Massini

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The F40 you saw at Zanassi is a dark blu like TDF. It was the Liberty walk white LM creation that lived in Japan. Then was sold by Joe Macari in UK in 2014 and went to Zanassi to be put back to stock.
I have been remotes to buy the car but sadly there’s no history prior to 2014.
Look on Instagram for F40BLU, owned by Sam Moores who is on YouTube.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEwHiL5JkLL/?igshid=1xgi7jzpqbwtl

The Azuro Dino stripe car for sale and in question has been completely rebuilt and is immaculate with new wishbones etc. All done at factory apparently. However, why such a low mileage car would be completely rebuilt is a question and there’s usually a story...


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Would be interested if you know anything about that white Liberty Walk LM car


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Nobody blindly relies on the Classiche Certification alone when buying an F40.

But it is an important official recording that a certain car existed to original factory specs at a certain point in time, if the car no longer exists like that then the buyer knows that the car has been modified post-issuance, if the car remains the same then that is a point in it's favor.

I can tell you from professional experience that an F40 with Classiche Certification ticks an important box for the vast majority of buyers, you can only ask yourself why so many people are willing to pay a significant sum to get their cars Classiche Certified.

 

So would you steer a client to either of these cars Joe?, as they both have the book! but I doubt anything else in support, given what is now emerging

I think not, which is the point being made about the process.

Someone is going to buy these cars at some point, and with only the red book to go on with them, then cars clearly get sold just on those red books, as both these obviously have up until now.

They seem to have even flown under Marcels radar until now.

 

Costs £7000. Not significant for the value of the car.


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I'm not talking about these cars at all, no interest in them for any client, I'm just making the point that Classiche Certification in general isn't used blindly by any buyer nor by me, you help make my point.

It's all about overall due diligence.

Indeed.

 

Yes, that looks more like the car I saw at Zanasi.
M

 

Here is the VIN stamp on the red car in Australia. Plainly not "factory original". Two cars claiming to be 90969, both false. (so much for Classiche inspection diligence)

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I don't think any of us can say for certain if the car wrecked in 1994 is either 90969 in Sydney or "90969" (85397) in England. Possible there is even a 3rd car? All we can go on are the facts that red 90969 seems to be a restamped chassis bearing the correct assembly # and the blue "90969" cannot be so because it has the assembly number from 85397. I don't have a photo of the VIN stamp for the blue car.

Oh dear.

 

Magazine article about the crash showing damage to the car and analysis of what happened:

http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/cpdb/crashphotos_view.php?editid1=4537

And youtube...

 

The accident car was a version with plexi side windows, maybe Marcel knows if either 85397 or 90969 were original plexi window cars.

 

Australia was a difficult place to get F40s into for a long time, as lhd cars simply were not allowed to be used on the road, even if they slipped into the country under the personal import rules. Even then the import and sales duties were huge.

So the handful that did land there could only be used as track cars, so its a small pool that these cars could have come from, Japan seems to be the staging point for the dodgier ones, it could be that the legit paperwork for one was used to slide others in and out of Japan / Aus with.

Not many legit ones leave Aus as due to the duties they will always be worth more in country than out of it.

Restrictions have eased now on lhd cars so more will be entering the country, so the claim the blue car was from Aus makes no sense, as it it was legit down there it would be worth far more than in the UK

 

90969 that's in our possession in Australia has the correct VIN tag, matching gearbox number and engine number along with the right assembly number. Happy to post all the Classiche sheets. Just trying to find out what's going on with all of this. Based on the info in MODIS, 90969 didn't have sliding plexi windows and is a cat & adjust car. The blue car is a non-adjust car.

 

90969 on a run in Melbourne about 8 years ago.
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The car went back to Japan after the Cannonball accident and was apparently repaired there and might have been crashed a 2nd time.
I don't know the S/N; but I'd sure be interested to find out. The fact that it is a sliding plexi window car narrows it down quite a lot as it must be a very early car and from memory there were not many at all fitted with those windows.