Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550? | Page 7 | FerrariChat

Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550?

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Ferrari55whoa, Oct 2, 2020.

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  1. NE550

    NE550 Formula Junior

    Mar 23, 2017
    409
    Omaha, NE
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Great looking 575. Final price seems a bit light for the mileage, but the lack of extensive maintenance records and lack of seller engagement likely offset the mileage factor.

    Btw...did you change your BAT username to "The_Underhill_Acount"?
     
  2. Qksilver

    Qksilver F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2005
    4,316
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Interesting. Assembly #46986 is in the first 50 or so produced, but at the tail end of that batch. On one hand, I would not put it past Ferrari to slap a left over 550 jamb sticker on an early 575... but this one isn’t THAT early.

    Alternatively, it could partially explain the lack of action. There were 839 watchers, whereas the other recent 575s were in the 1.0-1.2K range +/- 50 or so. I know if I was seriously considering the car, I would have studied every picture in detail. It’s possible there were potential prospects that noted that and no longer considered the car, many of whom may not be commenters or interested in sabotaging somebody’s auction through whistleblowing.
     
  3. root

    root Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 28, 2012
    472
    Bay Area, Ca
    #153 root, Jan 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    Eric,

    The number on the tire pressure sticker is the Ferrari label number for that sticker not the VIN. It could be a replacement label not the factory label for whatever reason.
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    On the tire pressure sticker, same tire and recommended pressures for the late 550 and early 575M so Ferrari likely used the 550 ones until they either ran out or the 575M one was available. 172682 is still available for less than $10 from Maranello Classic Parts, so they must have gotten in 575M stickers before they ran out of 550 ones.
     
  5. TomTom74

    TomTom74 Rookie

    Dec 25, 2020
    26
    I’m sure there is a lot of truth in what you say or what ‘they’ suggest, but a car that has say 10k miles and is 25 years old will have different ‘gremlins’ to those you get from using cars, where is the point of equilibrium?
    I would argue that i would rather spend on keeping the car in tip top shape AND use it rather than spend money and not use it.
    In my case, recommissioning the car meant looking at all the elements that deteriorate with time and/no usage. They add up! 1990’s cars have so much more rubber that fails than older cars F’s includes.
    But what can i add, ultimately the market is always right. I just get a divvi every time i fire them up!
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Many owners have multiple cars, all of which are well maintained professionally. Those types of cars tend to be lower mileage, but in great shape.
     
  7. SteveVT

    SteveVT Karting

    Nov 30, 2019
    107
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    Steve
    @tazandjan - Terry have you had good success with sourcing 575 parts from Maranello Classic parts? Any other go-to places for sourcing 575m parts? My mechanic is having trouble sourcing some parts and wants to get them from a dealer, but that is very pricey. Apologies if you have answered this question elsewhere!!
     
  8. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 21, 2005
    2,592
    Los Gatos, CA
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    Eric
    #158 Ferrari55whoa, Jan 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
    @SteveVT

    Steve have you been looking at Ricambi? https://www.ricambiamerica.com/

    Not knowing what you needed....I think you and i have also talked about Scuderia Rampante

    I've been thinking about you and your car a lot lately (I appreciate and enjoy your updates). As things progress, I'm very interested in being educated on how the process "getting your car up on maintenance" comes out (I'm optimistic that your $/Hr rate out there will be way more reasonable than we see in CA). I'm also interested in some education on the "wavy-ness" of the carpet on the shelf, was there anything weird going on or was it just poor photography?

    My gut is leaning more and more towards thinking you are "winning" given where you were able to get your car. priced at and how few 2004 575's there were. When that auction happened it was such an unknown without the PPI but for you so far things sound generally like this is going to be a good one?

    I originally thought your car would have been a neat F1-6MT conversion.....I also had some emails back and forth recently with Daniel whom is working with/helping EAG with their F1-6MT situation.....they are going to be teaming up with Roselli here in the bay area for 575 conversions which is going to be very interesting.

    Thanks again for the updates on your experiences -- I'm always learning a lot here and I'm grateful -- Eric

    p.s while I was down the rabbit hole here again I stumbled on a european spares provider https://www.redbaycars.com/ not sure if that will be helpful depending on what you need.
     
    F456M likes this.
  9. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 15, 2012
    7,698
    Newbury, Berkshire, England
    Full Name:
    John
    Don't always assume dealers will be pricier than other places - those are the places from which my dealer often sources parts for my car, and he gives me the benefit of his trade discount, so it's cheaper and less hassle.:)
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Steve- I did have really good luck in the past, but have not ordered anything from Maranello Classic Parts recently.
     
  11. SteveVT

    SteveVT Karting

    Nov 30, 2019
    107
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Thanks all for the advice on parts. My mechanic is frustrated trying to find parts in stock is insisting on ordering from the dealer so that we can get things done efficiently. I will share the full parts list once I have it and welcome feedback.

    @enesset - Eric - So far things- fingers crossed- are going about as planned. When I bought the car, I figured I had a 'major service' plus 2-3 unexpected, but significant things ('known unknowns' as Donald Rumsfeld would say). So far, that's how it is playing out.

    The carpet waviness in the back does not appear to be anything major, but we have not fully looked into it bc the focus has been on the deferred maintenance and mechanicals.

    I've watched the dialog on F1- 6MT conversion with some interest. It is something I am going to keep my eye on and will be curious to see how some of these conversions pan out and how the market takes to them. Please keep the group posted on what you learn!
     
  12. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    Dec 21, 2005
    2,592
    Los Gatos, CA
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    Eric
    #162 Ferrari55whoa, Jan 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
    @SteveVT This weekend I watched a bunch of youtube videos by Normal Supercar guy (I am pretty sure he is on the forum). I enjoyed several of his videos. I was also reading about differing opinions here on EAG. It seems from the videos they are doing some really neat stuff. Some of the older commentary on EAG was that they had too much going on and it seems like if Daniel is helping the EAG group, I assume that would be a positive. I also saw Daniel/"GatedSix" was going to be working with a variety of shops to help on install and Daniel in an email noted Roselli for the San Jose area.....and while I've not met or know Roberto at Roselli, I've read a lot of nice things being said about him here so that was also interesting in a good way.

    I don't know how much profit is in a conversion kit but if that business grows, it would be neat if possible to have EAG/Gated-Six as a Sponsor here (also no clue what sponsorship costs) but I am a Rosso level sub because I feel like the value here is significant.

    My personal search has been wide and deep and as a "learning kindergartner" I listen closely to what the "professors" here share.

    It is my impression that finding a well-documented, very heavily optioned 550 with the "evolutionary modifications" is difficult to find so I get it why it would make sense to buy a highly optioned 575 and then drive the F1 for awhile and then convert (especially if reversible -- as we all get older and leg strength declines having an F1 would be especially attractive).

    It seems like if a guy wanted to do a F1-6MT conversion the way to do it would be a well optioned '04 or '05 or an earlier car with FHP. What I find interesting about the 575M's (in addition to all the evolutionary updates) is how there are so many more options available when compared to the 550's. Many Ferrari guys are traditional in that they want factory correct, low mileage examples ("originality focused collectors") and I'm not in that category....I'm an "enjoyer" so that sentiment has driven my search. I don't know that converting and flipping would add up to a "big profit" since the very limited factory supplied 6MT's should likely garner big prices for specific collectors and those specific collectors I suspect would focus on "originality".....but if it was hard/impossible to find the right optioned 550 for someone wanting a 6MT then a conversion of a "right priced" car could pencil out.

    Through all my extensive searching and digging, I have a short list built of all the 550/575 unicorns I find most interesting and if none of them became available at my perception of a correct price then I would definitely pursue a highly optioned 575. Everyone has a different focused search and it can be challenging to find the right options and the right colors. I was really hot to trot for Jared's 575 with Fabio's exhaust (any maranello with Fabio's set up is on a very short list).... that was bought by @Qksilver but I hesitated because it didn't have all the options I wanted at the price I wanted. I also bid early on the Grigio Alloy car bought recently by @Boy Wonder as that color is attractive and carbon is rare but it didn't quite tick all the boxes for me personally and the pricing on that was much stronger than I anticipated. In hindsight the local to me 575 was well optioned but I am personally burned out on Grigio Titanio and Argento Nurburgring https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-ferrari-575-maranello-16/

    I hope I say it enough.....I'm extremely grateful for all the info and insights that the members here share.
     
    SteveVT likes this.
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Eric- The 550 Scaglietti options were roughly the same as those on the 575M, except of course for HGTC. There were a couple, like the quilted roof liner and gold calipers, that were available only on the 550 as listed options.


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    ShineKen likes this.
  14. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    Dec 21, 2005
    2,592
    Los Gatos, CA
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    Eric
    Terry, thanks for sharing that. I think in my thread deep dives I had seen one like that you had historically posted for the 575. Very grateful.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Eric- Those options were not available until around Winter 97/98 and for some reason most 550s were very lightly optioned until around 2000. Maybe the dealers were not highlighting them until then or spec ordered them lightly optioned.
     
    ShineKen likes this.
  16. mchas

    mchas F1 Veteran
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    Oct 5, 2004
    5,903
    Los Angeles
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    Mark
  17. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    Dec 21, 2005
    2,592
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    Eric
    As noted previously by many, maybe the nicest example available.

    With how BaT has been that car could see $200k
     
  18. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 21, 2005
    2,592
    Los Gatos, CA
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    Eric
    Another 550 sale today on BaT, I thought this one would be the one to “ring the bell” at the top. Strong result and I’m guessing Brian is pleased but I thought it would go even higher based on where other cars had been that seemed inferior.

    Rosso Corso over "beige" SOLD $176,000 on 2/4/21
    +) 550 Ser no. 120170
    +) 2000 MY with 13,938 miles
    +) Owned by fellow F-Chatter @EZ2SPD ; 1st owner Oscar de la Hoya
    +) Factory 18” modulars, daytonas w red piping, shields, luggage, quilted parcel
    +) Aftermarket alpine radio with focal speakers and original radio included; complete tools, etc
    +) 2018 clutch, 2021 belt service
    +) San Antonio, TX
    +) https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-ferrari-550-maranello-14/
    +) https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2000-550m-red-tan-loaded.627494/
     
    niftyfivefifty likes this.
  19. NE550

    NE550 Formula Junior

    Mar 23, 2017
    409
    Omaha, NE
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Primo example for sure. $181K (including $5K BAT fee) is probably top of current market (or close to it) for a 14K mile 550 of this caliber. And it's a rising market right now for manual Maranellos. In the long run you can never go wrong paying up for a top-notch example. I hope the owner doesn't get buyer's remorse, ignores valuations, and actually drives and enjoys his "new" 550.
     
    Il Tifoso likes this.
  20. SteveVT

    SteveVT Karting

    Nov 30, 2019
    107
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    Steve
    @enesset and @NE550 - It was an interesting auction for sure. This car had it all - well-cared for example, luggage, up to date service, celebrity history, all wrapped in corsa rossa. The seller did a pretty stand up job presenting the car as well and they should be pretty pleased with the price.
     
  21. root

    root Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 28, 2012
    472
    Bay Area, Ca
    Strong result but still a lot of car for the money considering that multi owner 355s with 2x or 3x the miles are selling for similar if not higher prices. If the 355 prices are correct the 550s are seriously undervalued.
     
  22. p1turbo

    p1turbo Formula Junior

    May 21, 2009
    359
    san francisco

    13K miles and "2018 clutch"

    yikes. so much for the knock on F1 needing clutches; F1 c more than 60k on mine.
     
    Niteroi likes this.
  23. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 21, 2005
    2,592
    Los Gatos, CA
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    Eric
    @SteveVT agreed.

    The prices are all over the board for sure.

    Your
    @root you know they say red is the best? “Wink”
     
  24. Qksilver

    Qksilver F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2005
    4,316
    Philadelphia
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    Joe
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Nice 575M. Unusual to see one with racing seats and no FHP, but US dealers really discouraged FHP because of the possibility of squealing brakes. Continental just changed to standard pads when they got complaints. Some of us bought extra sets of very, very low mileage FHP pads (since sold) from Continental. Proper bedding pretty much eliminated the squeal, since mine very rarely squealed when I had them installed.
     
    SteveVT likes this.

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