Lowering the 458 | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Lowering the 458

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Texasz, Sep 20, 2012.

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  1. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    Hopefully some place nice.
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    A.B
    Yep.

    The cars with lifter has less fron adjustability, but that's mors in terms of lowering. A non-lift car can be lowered about 25 mm on the front, while a lift car about 15 mm. But both can be raised.

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  2. Sargepug

    Sargepug Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 23, 2020
    878
    NYC
    I have a Novitec lowered suspension and spacers in the rear. I also have the nose lift option which comes in real handy. 21/22 wise, that's how my car was, when I bought it. W/ the lowered suspension, i'd get a lot of rubbing and ride was bone jarring on **** NYC roads. So I slapped on my stocks (that also came w/ the deal) and couldn't be happier!
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  3. 6Summits

    6Summits Rookie

    Nov 24, 2020
    4
    Arkansas
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    Eldon Boone
    I will take my car back in and have them look again at raising the front of my car. Thanks for posting.
     
  4. 6Summits

    6Summits Rookie

    Nov 24, 2020
    4
    Arkansas
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    Eldon Boone
    I'll order some 10 or 11 mm spacers for the front and see if that resolves the rubbing. Thank you.
     
  5. 6Summits

    6Summits Rookie

    Nov 24, 2020
    4
    Arkansas
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    Eldon Boone
    Found a Ferrari repair shop in Dallas with Novitec experience. The front shocks are adjustable after you temporarily remove the front lift system that hides the threads. After raising the car about 0.75", the front tires no longer rub when turning and I'm not bottoming out on rough surfaces. The look is perfect and the ride is good. Thanks for everyone's input.
     
  6. ilko

    ilko Karting

    Aug 20, 2008
    150
    I just picked up a 458 over the holidays. Fun car, but I can't believe how stupid high the stock suspension is. So I bought a set of H&R springs and lowered it myself over the weekend.

    These cars are extremely easy to work on. 3 bolts and each shock is out. The factory manual calls for the A arms to be disconnected in the front but if you remove the fender liner you can just lift the whole assembly up without the need to upset the rest of the suspension. Makes the job a lot easier and is a great opportunity to vacuum out sand and rocks from the radiators. I have the nose lift and used a spare bolt to plug the hydraulic fluid reservoir, which resulted in practically no fluid loss.

    With the proper tools it takes less than a day to swap everything without rushing the job. H&R advertise a 1" drop (25mm) with their springs but in reality it's closer to 30mm which works even better. The colilover shocks were set at perfect ride height at the factory, I measured them, and I didn't have to change any of the settings.

    I've only put a few miles on the car since the install to make sure everything is up to snuff. The only observation I have so far is that the ride is firmer. I'm taking it in for alignment at a local independent that preps 458 Challenge cars and will reserve my handling opinion until after that's done. These cars are very sensitive to alignment settings, the job needs to be done by someone who knows exactly what they are doing.

    Here are a few pics of the install:


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  7. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    A.B
    Would be great if you could share your final alignment specs.
     
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  8. ilko

    ilko Karting

    Aug 20, 2008
    150
    Yep. There is practically no information online about alignment settings for these cars, it's sad.
     
  9. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    The factory specs are in the Work Shop Manual. Beyond that, it's best to just read up on line about how to dial in race car alignment and what each change does and how it affects handling, etc. The alignment on the 458 has a bit of toe-out in the front, which improves cornering but doesn't do much for straight-line stability (especially under acceleration). I was going to set my toe to +/- 0.00mm on the 458, but lowering the front 15mm (and leaving the back stock) seemed to result in a really nice improvement, so I never bothered.

    On my Toyota pickup truck, I set the alignment myself in the garage using a tape measure. All you have to do is make a mark on the tires at the back, measure that, then roll the car until the mark goes to the front, then measure it again. That will yield the toe-in/out. Camber is pretty easy using a digital angle gauge or a little trigonometry :)

    Ray
     
  10. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    That's a nice spring compressor there.. who makes that?

    Ray
     
  11. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    A.B
    I really hope you mean 1.5 mm, and not 15mm. Stock is between 5 and 7 minutes, which is between 0.7 and 1 mm out per side. Did you go in or out in the front?
    Now I will say this. Toe out in the front can yield stability. Stability is also a result of how much you toe. Go super aggressive with toe out in the front, which also results in a really heavy steering, and you end up with a car that can hold itself at 200 mph. If you set the car to 0 toe, you often end up with a car that floats. Some like it for small tracks and autocross, but I'm not a fan. I run about 12 minutes out in the front currently, which is about 1.7-1.8 mm.
     
  12. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Lowered the car 15mm in front - and I think that might have affected the toe-in slightly.

    Let me see if I can find this one article I was reading a while back on tuning race car suspension. It was pretty interesting and helpful.

    Ray
     
  13. ilko

    ilko Karting

    Aug 20, 2008
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  14. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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  15. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    I think it's kind of interesting to see their examples. Can remember the last time I saw a sportscar that comes from the factory with front toe in. Porsche GT cars, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, BMW M, Mercedes AMG and McLaren all run toe out.

    Here is something interesting to note though. How the power assist in the car is set up, can greatly affect how toe in and out affect the car. With my 488 Spider, I have run as much as 30 mins out. It still does not get darty, just heavy. Now dobthat to a Pista and it becomes a death trap. A Pista is a bit darty with the factory toe out, which is 7 mins. This greatly helps the car to change direction, bit it can also overload the tyres causing understeer. Some get rid of this by going to toe in. This does reduce turn-in speed and to some drivers, it will even feel sluggish. It really depends on your driving style. Same goes for the rear. I prefer to have a bit more rotation and am okay sacrificing a bit of thrust on corner exits, i.e, a bit of tie out in the back as well. Have found that both the Pista and 488 likes this - at least for my style.

    The tricky thing here is that we also have to factor in tyres. Just look at Michelin Cup 2 R vs. Trofeo R. If your style benefits a neutral car that can oversteer, Trofeo R is the shoe of choice. If you like to run with a greater safety marging, and perhaps gain time by giving it more of a boot-full on corner exits, then the Cup 2 R is more your bag.

    So many options. I have found that I greatly prefer Cup 2's in the N1 spec as it is more neutral than the Pista/Speciale shoe.

    You should check your alignment. Lowering does affect toe.

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  16. r6elmo

    r6elmo Karting

    Sep 12, 2010
    101
    would love to see a post from you on the H&R - i was considering this but saw so little reviews so I went with novitec. what spring compressor is that and how did you remove the top liner? it looks like it goes under the windshield - couldn't figure how to remove, and then on the driver side the windshield wiper arm appears to be in the way to extract from the top, curious how you resolved that?

    here are the alignment specs (gathered from Ferrari dealership and my actual specs after lowering at dealership) I've never seen a car be so impacted when cross aligning, meaning when you touch the rear driver side it impacts so much the front passenger. The cars toe out in the front makes it very darty for corners, but a bit squirrely at high speed freeway driving

    Front Toe: -0.12*
    Rear Toe: +0.17*

    Camber I couldn't get in range because car is lowered:
    Ranges Recommended are below and in () are my actual
    Front Camber -0.5* to -0.9* (-1.2* Driver, -1.8* Passenger)
    Rear Camber -1.1* to -1.5* (-2.3*)
     
  17. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    On the panels up top, they come out pretty easy as I recall. Remove the weather stripping around the front trunk bin thing.

    The wiper stuff doesn't have to totally come out; you just have to loosen it a bit and push it out of the way as far as I remember.

    Ray
     
  18. Sargepug

    Sargepug Formula Junior
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    Mar 23, 2020
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    Be sure to put spacers in the rear gents, it's a must! I put a set of Novitec spacers on and it really completed the look in the rear. The front wasn't necessary.
     
  19. Adamtensta

    Adamtensta Karting

    Jan 9, 2019
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    Adam Tensta
    I might be old school but lowering a ferrari is like painting on a da vinci painting...
     
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  20. Sargepug

    Sargepug Formula Junior
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    Mar 23, 2020
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    "slamming one" yes, but lowering a 458 is very common in my neck of the woods. To each his own though...
     
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  21. ilko

    ilko Karting

    Aug 20, 2008
    150
    The car is aligned, here are my specs:

    Front Camber -1.2º Driver, -1.3º Passenger
    Front Toe: -0.12º

    Rear Camber -2.3º Driver, -2.4º Passenger
    Rear Toe: +0.17º

    I also just put 488 wheels on the car with beefier 245 front and 305 rear Michelin tires. The H&R springs are definitely stiffer than stock but very compliant and the softer sidewall on the Michelins compared to the P Zeros make the reduction in comfort negligible. The 488 wheel & tire combo fits perfectly and fills the arches very well, which eliminates the need for spacers.

    I'll have a set of silver forged 458 wheels w almost new Pirellis, brand new spacers, and OEM carbon fiber center caps listed for sale soon...


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  22. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    A.B
    Interested to hear your thoughts behind your camber settings. That's a lot of rear camber compared to front. Would think that makes the car understeer quite a bit when trying to get power down on the exit.

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  23. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,645
    Silicon Valley
    U.S. cars are setup a bit higher to meet bumper height requirements, so lowering it a little to match EU specs doesn’t really paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa.


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  24. Petrolhead#32

    Petrolhead#32 Formula Junior
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    Sep 23, 2020
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    Petrolhead#32
    Hey everyone, I've been researching the FChat looking for the topics of vibration issues with the Novitec sport springs and spacers.

    Like so many of you, I bought the 2013 458 Spider and immediately wanted to lower the ride, but also stiffen it a bit too. My local shop that I always trust offered me the Novitec SS option + spacers and lowered it 30mm. I've used them for a few months now. Looks wise, I couldn't be happier.

    However, my issue is that I get an annoying vibration. Most noticeable on the HW at >70 mpg, but also at lower speeds if the pavement is not ultra smooth. Also, in spirited driving the car shakes too much when turning fairly aggressively. The left mirror also shakes...

    Moreover, the vibration used to be noticeable on the steering wheel for a while. So I checked the balancing of the wheels and also if there was any issues with any cracked wheel with my shop and everything is good there. They did the balancing and the steering wheel doesn't vibrate much at all now. But I still get vibration coming from the seat. Feels like it the whole car under vibrates, actually.

    I know the ride gets stiff with the Novitec SS, but I just don't think that's it. My other car is a GT3, BTW, and while the ride is firm, it feels a heck of a lot more planted, doesn't vibrate, and ultimately offers me a sporty but also comfortable ride and more confidence too.

    Thoughts on this? Could it be the SS? Could it be the spacers? Wheels issue?

    Thx in advance.
     

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