Lewis Hamilton discussion thread

It's not being PC...it's being accurate. Men AND women have been designing, building, and maintaining these wonderful machines for years. Posts and suggestions like yours are what denigrate and make things extra challenging for girls/women who have genuine interests and passions for F1 and racing in general. Just state the facts without the dramatic flourish...it's boorish and offensive.

 

I understand that Mercedes is the cream of the crop. BUT...there is truth to saying that the rest of the field is more competitive than it has been in a LONG time...

When is the last time the 107% rule was even mentioned? The delta from the front to the back is less than it has been historically.

 

Ugh.

Ahhh. Location noted.

 

If you want to skip the whole "meat" of the article, just read the last sentence of the article.

MPH: How much of Lewis Hamilton's success is down to his car?

The Mercedes was the dominant factor in this year's F1 championship race, writes Mark Hughes. But that's not to say that any driver could have had Lewis Hamilton's success

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One of the biggest talking points of an F1 season in which Lewis Hamilton broke the all-time career stat records previously held by Michael Schumacher has been just how big a part the driver plays, relative to the car. It’s a greatly misunderstood concept.


First of all: obviously the car is the dominant factor in deciding who wins a race. There was an average 2.3sec per lap performance spread between the fastest car and the slowest this year (if we assume they were being driven to the same level, but at least 2sec otherwise). This is a fairly typical margin for the last few seasons, actually slightly closer than the last couple. In the same car, how much lap time would there be between the fastest driver and the slowest? We’re into educated guesswork here but let’s say, at maximum, 0.8sec. It’s actually more complex than that, of course, as the answer involves how particular car traits dovetail with particular driving styles and how much could this same car be adapted to the specific skills of each driver. But, in general terms, the car’s contribution to raw performance is something in the order of three times as powerful as the driver’s. Only because the standard of the drivers is so uniformly high.

But what that close spread between fastest and slowest driver does is put the last tenth-two tenths – of driver contribution – at an extremely high premium. Admittedly, in 2020 for Mercedes it turned out those last couple of tenths of driver input would not be particularly valuable, given that its car was round 0.7sec quicker than the next fastest. But in a more closely-matched season – like the previous three, say – it would be exceptionally valuable as it could often be the differentiator of which of two closely-matched cars won.

Which then begs the question of how do we know which, if any, drivers have that vital tenth or so of performance beyond the norm? Definitively, we don’t of course. Not in any scientifically provable way. But we see patterns, little snap-shots of genius. We also can talk to engineers who have worked with dozens of top drivers over the years and who are armed with data gleaned from telemetry, tyre loadings etc who know when they have seen something very special and can differentiate it from just ordinary run-of-the-mill F1-level excellence. You can also sometimes see it with your own eyes trackside. There are only a handful of drivers who ever reach this last two-tenths territory (almost certainly less than half of the current grid). There are even fewer who can produce it on demand. Maybe three, possibly four, of the current grid.

So already, despite the car being three times as powerful as the driver in general terms, in reality because there is such uniform excellence, those very few who can deliver beyond that are disproportionately important in the equation. Because if you took a random driver in one of the slower cars and placed him in a Mercedes that’s 0.7sec quicker than the next-fastest car, he will of course be competitive. But if he is 0.2sec slower than the guy in the other Mercedes, he’s not going to win very often. So of course it’s about the driver, just as it’s also about the car. Then there’s the question of why has that driver got himself into the top car? Why did that top team want him in there? Because they see the patterns too, spend many hours and some very powerful analysis tools judging such things.

But we’ve discussed only one-lap speed so far. There is also the matter of putting a race together. This is where those not quite so blessed with the freakish one lap speed can use circumstances to bring themselves into contention. The biggest sensitivity in this area is tyre usage – the ability to minimise the energy you are taking from the tyres while still maintaining a competitive pace for a long enough stint to make your strategy work. Daniel Ricciardo is phenomenally good at this – and is close enough to the ultimate in one-lap pace that in combination he is one of the handful that can be the best on any given day. Sergio Perez is similarly good with the tyres but is probably not close enough on ultimate pace to be one of the absolute elite. Valtteri Bottas can occasionally reach super-fast qualifying territory, bit still takes a lot from the rubber. Carlos Sainz has shown signs of being able to put together Ricciardo-like races. Hamilton is a virtuoso at this – and has the searing single lap pace. Max Verstappen has the searing pace and is always on top of the tyres, and though we’ve yet to see any of those ‘miracle’ stints, they are probably within him. Charles Leclerc has the single-lap pace but admits there is still work to do on always getting the tyre part of the equation right. George Russell had been doing some extraordinary things with the Williams in qualifying this year. It is not a Q2 level of car but many times he put it into Q2. And many times the data was suggesting he was doing something beyond the norm. So it was exciting when he got his Mercedes chance in Sakhir. His performance in what was a thermal deg race suggested he was on top of the tyre demands too.

All this puts yet another layer on the importance of the driver – and why not just anyone could achieve the same level of success as Hamilton in Hamilton’s car. Because Hamilton will be in the other one. So to achieve Hamilton levels of success, you’d need to be able to go bat-to-bat with him on single lap pace, have as deep an understanding of the dynamics, be as in tune with the tyres as he is, be able to attack and defend as well as him, be as in tune with his engineering core as him. How many of the other 19 on the grid could do that? I’m guessing there are no more than three contenders, possibly four.

But yes, apart from all those requirements, it’s only about the car.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/mph-how-much-of-lewis-hamiltons-success-is-down-to-his-car

 

No mention of driver passing abilities.

No mention of George on dirty side of grid sticking one up the inside of Bottas

 

Yep. No mention of Mazepin, an F2 driver, achieving pole during testing at Catalunya in 2019 in the W10.

 

Like the article says, it takes more than speed to achieve success.

 

For the hybrid era all it takes is a Mercedes seat.
Even Bottas can win races with them.

 

It has nothing to do with location. It’s human decency and respect.

 

right. OK. You keep telling yourself that.

 

You must be really spooked by people who don't put location on their profile, I suspect.

 

And women, apparently.

 

? The heck does that mean? Just more easily explains where he is coming from.

 

Not so says my wife of 24 years.

 

You pigeonhole people according to their location?

I feel almost sorry for you.

 

Have you ever BEEN there? I'd feel sorry for you if you were there.

 

It doesn't put you in a good light to discriminate people based on their location.

Don't bother to answer.

 

You don't understand the meaning of the word 'discriminate', do you?
Profiling, maybe.

 

Don't believe the narrative that has been spun. Plus...it's not like Minnesota hasn't had some "issues." Again, location has zero to do with the topic at hand. I can recognize strength and intelligence and do not see any value in qualifying and minimizing references to such traits as being PC.

 

So why on earth is Russell still with Williams? How long will it take being a back marker to erase the memory of his one weekend with Mercedes.

 

Thus says the man who does not hesitate to discriminate against an entire nation. At least tell me that you do it on purpose?

 

@lorenzobandini: The sarcastic PC comment wasn't to advance the conversation, it was just to rile folks up. 30-day thread ban.

@william: I recommend use of the ignore button to filter out content you don't enjoy.

The link to the P&R F1 thread, in case anyone needs it: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f1-p-r-discussion-thread.631213/

@BMWairhead: It was a vacuous comment designed to rile things up. Why assist him in getting us off topic?

These posts addressed together:

@kes7u, @BMWairhead, @william, and @jpalmito: 30-day thread ban to break this up. Don't get personal with each other.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Yep. ''who else could've have done what His Lewisness has accomplished?''. Just about any driver on the grid, bar probably Latifi. Bottas, with an extraordinary poor season, still finished 2nd. Goes to show that anyone could've won the title in the Mercedes so long they have a sloth as their teammate.

 

I agree, F1 is supposed to be a meritocracy.
Bottas should be moved aside for George, just as Albon has been moved for Perez.

But Toto doesn't have the minerals.

 

Yeah, I got a dartboard hanging in the shed and I threw a couple of 180s last night, certainly makes me a contender for the World Championship of Darts and takes away of the ability of those professionals doesn't it?

For sure, more than a couple of drivers on the grid could fill the Mercedes #1 seat and become the dominant champion. But it is the complete system of team, car, driver (with qualy-pace, race intelligence and consistency) that is needed to win championships. Seems like a lot of the self-proclaimed lifetime F1 experts are still blind about the difference between driving a fast lap, scoring 1 win and winning a championship.

For all the crap Bottas gets on this forum, I still rank him as a fairly average competent driver. Maybe around P9, P10 on the grid in terms of ability. He does not come close to championship-winning in the Mercedes, so about 3 or 4 other drivers who could seems about right.