The Battle of Midway Analysis | FerrariChat

The Battle of Midway Analysis

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by spicedriver, Dec 10, 2020.

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  1. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
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    #1 spicedriver, Dec 10, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
    Some interesting points on this critical battle.

    Part 1

    Part 2

    Part 3
     
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  2. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    In early 1942 I was old enough to realize what a desperate situation we were in. A rush of young men were entering the service and everybody was mad as hell. The victories in the Pacific were not only a huge boost to the morale and also a look into to the depth of personal strength and resolve of the American people when they are threatened. This has been the error of a few adversaries, one recently that underestimated the stability of strong and free people. Our adversaries in the early forties took us for being a fat indolent pushover and they were shocked to see that we were capable of "laying it on the line" when we had to. By the time that I went into the service the U.S. military had become a force of highly efficient and fully effective combatants that were feared and respected. I wondered where my D.I. had obtained his harsh exacting military disciplines in a few short years. I flew with plain old guys who became machines when they were in their duty places. What I saw in these analysis's of the Battle of Midway is the same ol' resolve to fight back and " Attack Attack Attack." Persistence !! It only took us 6 months to bloody the nose of the first guy to underestimate our strengths. The Axis was to learn the same in a few years on the ground and in the air. And the veterans with whom I served and knew after the war took it all as something that they had to do at the time. Many of them looked at it as an adventure. I'm glad that I could see some of it.
     
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    The Japanese knew they could never win a long war with the United States. Their entire strategy was to quickly wipe out the Pacific fleet anyway they could, then hoping the isolationist movement in the USA would force the government to sue for peace believing the American loss of life would be too great to accept to take back Asia.

    Midway was part of that strategy as a follow up for the failure to decisively win at Pearl Harbor. If Midway was successful for the Japanese, the Americans could have been forced to move the navy from Pearl to the US West Coast and begin a defensive strategy rather than offensive.

    The Japanese lost Midway because:

    They didn't understand the Americans had figured out the battle in advance, or didn't believe their own eyes that they might have. They had a plan and were going to follow it.
    They assumed that even if the Americans were in the area, they had overwhelming forces to defeat them. At best America had 2 carriers believing Yorktown was lost.
    They didn't have radar and they had poor recon from scout planes. The Americans had the opposite.
    The Americans took bold and risky decisions while the Japanese were more conservative.
    There was some luck involved which could have gone either way. It was an unlucky day for the Japanese. It could have been a complete failure for the Americans.

    After Midway, the Japanese were on the defensive for the rest of the war. But the "unconditional surrender" doctrine of the Americans after Pearl Harbor meant there would be no acceptable Armistice with the Japanese. Japan had to be destroyed and they had no choice but to fight until the end because the Americans only wanted victory that way. And it didn't help that the Japanese were negotiating peace at the exact same time as planning and executing Pearl Harbor. Nimitz was told his objective was to sail into Tokyo bay. That was the only acceptable victory.

    In the end, Midway was a huge moral boost, gave America time to build its navy, training, hardware and build a strategy for victory. It put the Japanese into the defensive position rather than offensive. But it was not the decisive moment to Japan losing the war. It made it easier for the Americans but eventually, Japan would have lost.

    Japan lost the war the day after Pearl Harbor when America didn't give up.
     
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  4. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I vividly recall the day that we were attacked and the week after. There was no hand wringing or fear. Mostly cold anger and a search for the nearest weapon that for many was the nearest military enlistment station. The mood of the nation was changed in a month and every ounce of energy of the population went into preparing to fight the enemies across the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Everybody pitched in and there was a lot bitching about not having any car fuel, sugar, tires, meat, and other rationed items but we all carried on, kept going, and "sucked it up". Unlike today, not one soul resisted anything that had to done that supposedly deprived them of 'their righteous freedoms". As a nation, we did what we were told for the good of the country. Certainly there were a lot of cheaters and opportunists but as a whole, this country pulled together. It would be nice to see the good leadership that we had then with F.D.R. who did everything to support and encourage us. Comments after the war by the Germans and Japanese spoke of their shock at the industrious might of this country when all the faucets were opened. One german soldier said, " We shoot up ten trucks and the next day there are twenty.' Kind of sums it up.
     
  5. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

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    I would also give credit to the Doolittle Raid. Although this action did not gain anything strategic, it had a great psychological effect on the Japanese. They did not want their Emperor, and home islands vulnerable to attack.
     
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  6. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 TheMayor, Dec 12, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
    I agree with this. It changed the actions in the Japanese military believing Japan as an Island nation could not be attacked. Certainly the British, Australians, and the Russians weren't a threat. Its no wonder why they thought they could not be stopped if America stayed out or took only a defensive posture.

    Operation MI went from a back burner idea to full speed ahead after Doolittle. It pressed idea of getting America out of the war quickly instead of trying to take Australia and other resources they wanted. Up until Doolittle, the Japanese seamed invincible.

    There were some major blunders on both sides. If the Japanese had split up the carriers into 2 groups instead of one, the risk of losing all 4 carriers would have been much less. If the Japanese had moved their carriers out of range, they would have won as the American losses of planes and pilots would have been damaged them even if the carriers were not hit. If the Japanese had finished off Midway's bases in one attack instead of two, they might have won. But they held back too many planes in reserve being too conservative and blind from a lack of radar.

    You have to give it to Nimitz for going on the attack at all. In retrospect it seems extremely risky. And I think Nagumo has always been the fall guy what it wasn't just him. The plan was inadequate to take out Midway with one strike and then set up a defensive position with the Battleship Yamato waiting for any counter attack they believed would be days away instead of at the same time.

    But in the end, technology and over confidence really hurt the Japanese. They didn't have radar, they had ineffective anti-aircraft guns, they didn't have good fire suppression systems and training, and they didn't have rubber fuel cells in planes like America had. Just a few bombs set off a firestorm on the ships. And innovations like the Thatch maneuver helped overcome the superior Zero in dogfight situations which helped neutralize their one technological advantage.
     
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  7. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Wasn't that the first use in combat of the 'Thatch Weave'?
    An answer for the Wildcat's lacks vs. the Zero.
     
  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I’m in awe of your memories. Please jot them down.


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  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    You need to buy Bob's book.
     
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  10. Bob Parks

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    I seem to remember that they pulled back several army units from the Pacific to guard the homeland. It did have a jolt to the Japanese. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Richard Cole, Doolittle's copilot who died at age 105 last year. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  12. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    It's difficult to forget things that gripped a 15 year old that had followed the war in Europe for 2 years. This country went from a quiet peaceful nation to a roaring war machine in a matter of a few short months. Everybody was involved in those days, it seemed. I was a freshman in high school and my manual arts teacher (remember manual arts?) worked every night after school making wooden casting patterns for naval gun parts. He didn't know what the parts were or for what kind of gun but he worked every night after school making beautiful wooden patterns. Many days I stayed after school making 1/72 scale aircraft identification models. I wish that I had some of the patterns and models now because they were beautiful items carved out of pure pitch free white pine. He shellacked his patterns and I did the same but had to add lamp black to the shellack. My mother tried to do her part by playing the piano and singing at military worship meetings that were held at our house. She was a highly trained musician that had performed at the White House as a teenager. My sister was a nurse, my brother was a combat surgeon in the Pacific Theater. My architect father worked for the Anacostia Navy Yard designing structures and facilities for the Navy. My aunt and grandmother made bandages and all households saved cooking fat and bacon grease for the manufacture of gun cotton.Every piece of metal that wasn't nailed down was turned in for the War Effort and many beautiful old cars met their fate then. When we moved back to Florida from Washington D.C. to the beach on Siesta Key we had strict black out rules at night and you couldn't go out after dark. There were a lot of things that we couldn't do or have but nobody complained to the point of disobedience. We all complied with the rules and obeyed the laws set before us and, as a cohesive force, did what we could to help. I wonder many times if this could happen again because one has to look back at it with a bit of pride.
     
  13. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Shared sacrifice. Sadly, we don’t see this anymore.


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  14. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    By the time I got to high school in 1968, it was called "graphic arts" but there were a number of disciplines being taught in different parts of the classroom; my choice, of course, was engineering drafting. As for those 1/72 ID models, the wood eventually gave way to plastic, and that's about when polystyrene was developed. FROG models of England, who had made 1/72 kits out of acetate before the war, did all the British ID models out of plastic. And they are the ones who came up with 1/72 scale in the first place.
     
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  15. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Thanks, Jim. Some more information of which I was unfamiliar.
     
  16. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

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    My father hailed from Spokane, WA. He helped build Liberty ships. He recognized the "Rosie the Riveter" display @ the Missouri, from back in the day. It seems everyone pitched in with the war effort then.

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  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Can I get the title please?
     
  18. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    "From a Crystal Set to a High Speed Jet".... you know the famous author.
     
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  19. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Thx
     
  20. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran
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    I wonder how The modern day America populace would respond today. Would they support and sacrifice or would they accept defeat?

    I pray for my kids and grandkids.
     
  21. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Apparently we would if Cuomo told us to support and sacrifice.... :)
     
  22. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Thanks for the plug about the book. My profit from purchases is in the form of pleasure in knowing that someone is enjoying it. I get next to nothing in royalties, ( 5.00), so I hope that it paints a clear picture of things past. I don't know about the"famous" stuff. I just like to tell stories.
     
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  23. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

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    Keep in mind that the US wanted nothing to do with a war in Europe before pearl harbor. Support for intervening in Poland when Germany invaded was only 16%. Only 7% supported intervening when Belgium/France was invaded.

    After Pearl Harbor, 97% supported declaring war.

    I suspect if there was a major attack on a US state, the exact same thing would happen.
     
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  24. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I remember two proponents of isolation. Wendell Wilkey and Charles Lindberg.
     
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  25. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

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