812 VS Rumors | Page 115 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2017
    1,129
    This is the exact issue I have with GPFs if what I read is to be true. Seems like minimal gain at the expense of something many of us love and already pay more than a fair share in taxes to enjoy
     
    skinguy23, stavura, of2worlds and 7 others like this.
  2. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
    1,342
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    George
    Sorry but what does all this discussion have to do with the 812VS? We seem to be focusing on the merits / issues of GPF here, which frankly is irrelevant as we will have to live with it. I understand the engine noise concerns, but perhaps they belong in a separate thread on GPF only
    Let’s get back on the 812VS!


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
    markonex, GK18, JagShergill and 18 others like this.
  3. ilcapodizurigo

    ilcapodizurigo Karting

    Oct 16, 2019
    192
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    John Meier
    Agreed! Any news updates, anyone got infos?
     
    Doug23 likes this.
  4. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 2, 2005
    2,504
    Earth
    Probably Trump (who I ardently support) discussions should be reserved for the politics section.

    That aside regulations that are country specific can be used to a companies advantage in any industry so why not by Ferrari
     
    skinguy23, stavura, F140C and 3 others like this.
  5. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
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    Yes make the strongest VS that more liberal specification markets will accept and don't even bother with the EU and China markets. The rest will certainly take up the production 'slack' that will be negligible. We hear how Ferrari often can sell three times as many special editions as they have actual cars available. Further Ferrari has a long and financially strong history of building special cars for specific markets which specifically exclude availability in other markets.
    If the rest complain give them a decals and stripes edition without the good parts...;)
     
  6. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
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    It’s being discussed since sound is one of the top reasons why people buy a V12 Ferrari, let alone the hardcore variant which has traditionally taken that element to the next level of enjoyment vs the base car. It’s a challenge they’ve previously not faced on a VS model so it is relevant and some of us are particularly curious to see what their solution will be.
     
  7. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
    759
    UK
    Full Name:
    Karl
    Fully agree, it does matter. The sound is one of the main reasons I bought an 812 SF and GTS. That is why electric cars have no appeal whatsoever.

    Also, we don't have to live with it! GPF delete options are starting to appear. Novitec sells a module that cancels warning lights from the GPF and allows you to fit sports cats instead. Problem solved! I would not decat a car, I personally think it's anti social, but sport cats to replace GPF is fine - there is still a (road legal) filter to trap emissions but you still get epic sound. Win win! I'm confident such options will exist for the VS version in due course.
     
    stavura, uhn2000, gliazzurri and 6 others like this.
  8. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2009
    873
    OC
    Why would we not talk about GPF? Frankly, there isn’t much news right now and this is one of the more relevant topics to keep us busy in the meantime.

    As mentioned above, you don’t have to accept them if you don’t live in certain regions. With that said, I don’t know why so many people are willing to curl up in fetal position and let their governments walk all over them? You can always move... hence the massive exodus from California, Oregon, Washington and NYC. If it’s such a game changer in the push for a cleaner planet, then why not let the free market decide? Regulation is never the answer. They aren’t required in the US so why should someone who’s willing to spend $300k+ on a car have to accept and inferior product because of a bunch wahoos overseas?

    Aston, McLaren, Porsche and I believe BMW all have region specific exhaust systems. There are probably more. This is not a new practice and has been the case since car manufacturers begun exporting cars around the world. Different markets=different regulations; therefore, different cars for different markets.

    There’s no reason why Ferrari shouldn’t be able to offer market specific exhausts when other small manufacturers such as Aston and McLaren are doing just that. It’s just typical stubborn Ferrari being stubborn Ferrari. It’s a combination of “we know what’s best for you because we’re Ferrari and we’re the best” and “if we can’t have it in Italy than you can’t have it anywhere!” This will especially irk me if they start shipping cars to the US that comply with EU noise regulations. You wanna force your silly little filter on us? Fine, we can find a way around that (hopefully without foregoing warranty). But don’t you dare try and sell us cars limited to some arbitrary 72 dB noise limit (or whatever it is) just because you can’t have nice things in the EU anymore.

    On a positive note, the spy videos around Maranello are encouraging. I guess we should learn to cherish what we have while we still have it, because at this rate, we won’t be driving ICE cars much longer.
     
    Times, stavura, F12JAJ and 6 others like this.
  9. Ltfor3

    Ltfor3 Karting

    Oct 14, 2013
    167
    FL
    Full Name:
    L.T.
    Because my wife wanted one and I’m supportive of her being supportive of my hobby


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  10. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2009
    873
    OC
    Ok last comment for now...

    I would argue that you’ve got this backwards. It is a major inconvenience for exotic car consumers and results in a minimal, if not immeasurable impact on toxic air particles.

    If you think about it in percentages I think it becomes more clear. Let’s say there are around 30k supercars produced around the planet per year. I’m not talking about all the suvs and sedans that automakers are adding to their lineups for the sake of lowering average emissions. I’m talking about the legit super sports cars made by Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Mclaren, Aston Martin, Mercedes AMG etc....

    Based off a quick google search, 92 million cars were produced world wide in 2019. So our beloved supercars account for 0.03% of all cars produced world wide in an given year.

    Now I’m just going to speculate here because I have no data on this, but let’s assume the average supercar is driven around 2,000 miles per year (sad, but probably true). And let’s assume a normal car is driven around 20,000 miles per year. So our super cars are driven around 10% as much as an ordinary car.

    So let’s take our 0.03%of annual production and multiply by our 10% factor and we can reasonably assume that new supercars will account for roughly 0.003% of all miles driven by new cars produced world wide in a given year. That means that out of every 33,333 miles driven by newly produced cars in a given year, only 1 of those miles is being driven by a supercar. This doesn’t even take into account the billions of older cars still on the streets that do not have filters.

    This leads me back to my original statement. The notion that putting a particle filter on a supercar will result in some measurable impact on the number of toxic particles in our air is completely absurd. Contrary to your statement, this is a major inconvenience for supercar makers/consumers (r&d/testing costs for manufacturers, engine sound for consumers) that will result in an entirely immeasurable impact on our air quality. I don’t know the specific stat, but somewhere I read that the average car kicks up significantly more dust simply by driving than the particle filter could ever filter out of the exhaust.

    The particle filter is just like the noise regulations. We know that the positive impacts are minimal, but it will ultimately result in the demise the ICE. The less desirable they can make them, the less people will fight for them to remain. For whatever reason, the powers that be have determined this to be the media driven narrative, which subsequently results in votes, which results in policies/regulations that pass for the sole purpose of politicians maintaining power rather than being based in fact or science.

    I’ll let your last comment slide for now, but we all know that was entirely unnecessary.
     
    skinguy23, F12JAJ, Reiziger and 5 others like this.
  11. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 2, 2005
    2,504
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    Add the woke notion and some anti-Trump bias (which should be reserved for the politics section) and clearly the argument is non-sensical and irrational. Data never lies and even your rudimentary calculations would be fairly accurate.

    Now back on topic - if Lambo can continue with the V10 NA in the Huracan it makes no sense why Ferrari couldn't do the same in the 812VS. Ferrari will make similar numbers of these to the Huracan STO over the same period (next 18months) and charge way more for the pleasure. Would make it a hard argument to upgrade from a non-GPF 812
     
    stavura, F12JAJ, Bundy and 1 other person like this.
  12. Lagunae92

    Lagunae92 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2018
    2,030
    SoCal
    I still think Ferrari should sell an exhaust option like that. We would buy it for $25k in an instant.
     
    F12JAJ, Eilig, Caeruleus11 and 2 others like this.
  13. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    I think the real point of the EU actions is the complete elimination of combustion engine powered cars by forcing them to be phased out...

    https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/road-zero-last-eu-emission-standard-cars-vans-buses-and-trucks

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/Combustion-engine-phase-out-briefing-may11.2020.pdf

    https://www.iru.org/resources/newsroom/euro-vii-debate-must-keep-internal-combustion-engine-table

    https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/09/20200918-mep.html
     
    Bundy, Eilig, Caeruleus11 and 2 others like this.
  14. SeattleStew

    SeattleStew Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2020
    983
    In the rain
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    Stew
    Still waiting on this mass exodus I keep hearing about in Washington. Have only seen the exact opposite happening.

    I do agree with the car based point you were making. Make region specific exhausts, everyone else does it. If it’s a cost issue (it shouldn’t be), make it cost more for the region, they’ll pay it.
     
  15. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
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    Cavallo
    Discussion of GPF in context of 812VS is absolutely relevant - at least to those of us who may (or may not) be interested in purchasing one.
     
    gliazzurri likes this.
  16. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3

    Apr 2, 2012
    2,064
    England
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    Scraggy
    Agree with all that but we can’t all have opt outs, got to have personal convictions and values
     
  17. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    May 2, 2005
    2,504
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    IMO then dont buy any ICE cars (and crush the ones you have as then they cant pollute anymore). Drive EV's and live the values 100% without opt-outs. That would also include green energy only and no oil and gas related products of any sort.

    Will be a fun existence .....
     
  18. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2009
    873
    OC
    I guess if your gonna go that route then I’ve got to call you out for all the ICE cars you own (I assume that’s your Pista in your prof pic? nice looking spec btw). By this logic, you should be ashamed in yourself for driving a Ferrari when there are electric, zero pollution options available. To quote yourself... seems like a minor inconvenience to reduce toxic air particles. Got to have personal conviction and values. (that was sarcasm)

    You can’t just conveniently pick and choose to only apply your values in scenarios/arguments that lend to some arbitrary moral high ground and allow you to virtue signal others for having “inferior” values and convictions. That’s totally unfair and hypocritical. Then again, most of 2020 has been people (and governments) acting unfairly with the utmost hypocrisy.

    And before you go there, I acknowledge that you can turn my argument around
    and say that I can’t just pick and choose that a certain law should only apply to cars that don’t interest me (although technically this law doesn’t even exist where I reside and I oppose it for all cars, not just exotics). But that would be missing the point that I’m trying to make. I’m simply pointing out that your original position that those who oppose GPF’s are somehow “selfish” is inherently flawed and opens a rabbit hole you’d likely prefer to avoid lest all of your daily actions be scrutinized and held to the same standards.

    Anyways, I regress, we are now completely off topic so I’m just gonna shut up. If you’d like to discuss the GPF and it’s application in the VS, I’m game for that.
     
    skinguy23, stavura, F12JAJ and 3 others like this.
  19. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    skinguy23, stavura, Shack and 6 others like this.
  20. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2004
    6,299
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    Ron
    There is some movement forward with this new car on Ferrari's end. Lists are appearing and phone calls to some Top Customers have been made.
     
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  21. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
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    Would they only do that if it’s planned to be numbered?
     
  22. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    864
    San Diego, CA
    Eight hundred and twelve
     
  23. ForeverCar

    ForeverCar Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2017
    307
    People that knows the truth might not be able to share freely.

    I think it’s hard to tell from “lists” and “phone calls to some top customers”. I can see lists to help with who gets one early. Having such list also increases demand (limited or not).
     
    mepassione and LVP488 like this.
  24. aobao1993

    aobao1993 Formula Junior

    Feb 3, 2017
    415
    ???
     

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