90% of the drivers would win in the Mercedes-Verstappen | Page 9 | FerrariChat

90% of the drivers would win in the Mercedes-Verstappen

Discussion in 'F1' started by Natkingcolebasket69, Nov 11, 2020.

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  1. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    47 races........longest run in F1 history..........and also tied for 2nd with another streak of 33 without a DNF.
     
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  2. simpen

    simpen Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2016
    291
    This. Max stagnated somewhat in his development & after RB told Jos to bugger off during race weekends, he improved significantly. Jos is great at being a pitbull/****** (choose according to your judgement of his character) in the press and contract negotiations, but has nothing to teach Max anymore to help him further his career on-track.
     
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  3. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

    Feb 27, 2005
    1,284
    Congested London
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    Beau


    simple maths
     
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  4. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Remarkable
     
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  5. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sainz has this opinion - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153729/sainz-few-f1-drivers-would-beat-hamilton-at-mercedes

    Carlos Sainz Jr believes very few of the current Formula 1 drivers would be able to beat Lewis Hamilton as his Mercedes team-mate but would win races with his car.

    Hamilton wrapped up his seventh world title after one of his most dominant campaigns in his career, capped by a brilliant comeback win in the Turkish Grand Prix, to mark his 10th victory in 14 races so far in 2020.

    Six of Hamilton's seven titles have come in the V6 hybrid era, in which his Mercedes team has been the dominant force. That reignited the debate on the role both car and driver play in Hamilton's record-breaking success.

    Paddy Lowe, who was Hamilton's technical director at McLaren and Mercedes, told Autosport earlier this month that Hamilton's success is predominantly "down to his driving", praising the Briton's consistency and endurance across his career.

    Sainz asserted that "90% [of the grid] would not beat Hamilton at Mercedes", but that any driver on the current grid would be able to win with the Mercedes W11 if Hamilton was removed from the equation.

    "As team-mates, with that car, very few people would be able to beat Hamilton during a 20-race season," the McLaren driver said in Turkey. "But if you remove Hamilton from the grid, any of the current F1 drivers would win with the Mercedes.
     
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  6. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    Jun 10, 2010
    562
    Sainte Colombe, France (near Lyon)
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    Jean-Michel Savary
    #206 rovexienus, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
    My feeling is that at the beginning of the 20 race season, a driver new to the Mercedes car would spend several Grand Prix learning how to extract the best out of the machine, while Lewis Hamilton would be at his best from race 1. So the odds seem to be stacked against the new driver in that scenario. But from from the beginning of season 2, the same driver would not be new to the car any more, so could compete with Lewis Hamilton on equal terms, at least without the excuse of the learning curve.
     
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  7. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    This is true. Very. Driver will always need to adapt to a new car, team and systems/procedures of operation in the car and in the organization. There is growing pain which takes time. That is why a driver will not just sit and exceed immediately. Its the speed of 'adaptation' that is needed/measured on a comparative basis. Add limited testing and that adaptation period will be of a longer duration.
     
  8. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Hamilton went to Mercedes 2013. He beat Rosberg the first year despite Rosberg having a 3 year head start with the team.
     
  9. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie



    According to Sainz, 10% of the current grid could beat Hamilton as team mate.
    Bottas is not in that 10%
    :D
     
  10. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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    Jun 19, 2008
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    So, Sainz is thinking himself and Max could beat Lewis? Or Charles and Max? Or himself and Charles?
     
  11. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    Jun 10, 2010
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    Jean-Michel Savary
    Correct, it says how good Lewis Hamilton was in 2013. The same can be said about Sebastian Vettel coming in RBR in 2009 and finishing ahead of Mark Webber who was in that team since 2007.
     
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  12. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    What do you think the 300-400 laps they do in spring test sessions are for ??
     
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  13. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    Jun 10, 2010
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    Sainte Colombe, France (near Lyon)
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    Jean-Michel Savary
    For testing, not for racing.
     
  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    If after 300-400 laps, a driver does not have a good feel fo the car and understand how to push it to its limits, that driver will never excel in F1.
     
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  15. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    Jun 10, 2010
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    Jean-Michel Savary
    I am not convinced a driver can optimize his /her performance with a new car after a couple of days of testing to reach the level where Lewis Hamilton operates today with that car. DF1 explained it much better than I can do:

     
  16. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    He probably thinks Charles and Max, but that may change when Sainz arrives at Ferrari.
     
  17. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    We also need to remember that Lewis engineers have the edge. That's why he got upset when Rosberg borrowed them in 2016.
     
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  18. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    Jun 10, 2010
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    Sainte Colombe, France (near Lyon)
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    Jean-Michel Savary
    Agreed, and in addition Lewis Hamilton has had ample opportunity over the years to have his driver inputs well understood by the racing team and by the design team, something a completely new driver - unless he/she is the equivalent of a F1 genius - cannot match in the short term.
     
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  19. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Agree.
    It is however possible with a genius.

    IIRC when Schumacher arrived at Benetton he was immediately faster than his 3 x WDC team mate Piquet.
     
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  20. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    With pre-season testing limited to just a single car, Sainz feels the fact that drivers will get just one-and-a-half days of running each before the start of 2021 is too limited to get on top of things.

    "I can already tell you that one-day-and-a-half in an F1 car, these complex F1 cars, is not enough to prepare for an F1 season," he explained.

    "You don't get to know the tricks of the car, or the steering wheel, even though you do a lot of simulator [runs].

    "[You need] to get to know the crew, so one-day-and-a-half is very, very little and probably not enough.

    "But it is what it is. We will have to adapt and we will need to find a way to make sure we are as prepared as possible within the limits [of the regulations]."

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153769/sainz-could-test-2018-ferrari-to-get-used-to-team
     
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  21. PerKr

    PerKr Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2007
    278
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    Per Kristoffersson
    Worth noting that this was Piquets last season though. He was past his prime and probably not as motivated as he could have been. He was about the same age as Schumacher was when he made his return with Mercedes. Small wonder the new wonderchild beat him just like LeClerc is spanking Vettel now (now that I think about it, Schumacher vs Piquet, Hamilton vs Alonso and LeClerc vs Vettel are sort of similar situations)
     
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  22. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Alonso was in his late 20's and in his prime when Hamilton beat him.
     
  23. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    I mean beat him is a strong word. It’s a tie really in points scores


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    To me if you beat somebody you beat somebody. I don't complicate things. To each his own.
     
  25. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,286
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    Indeed you don’t like complicate things.
     
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