FORMULA 1 DHL TURKISH GRAND PRIX 2020 - ISTANBUL.......Race ▄▀▄▀ Spoilers ▀▄▀▄

2009 was a "Brawn year", when his car had technical superiority.
Most teams expected Ross Brawn's double diffuser to be banned, and reacted only late in the season.
In between, Button won most of the early races that year.

If Hamilton has benefited from an "unfair advantage" at Mercedes, Button certainly did in 2009 at Brawn.

 

I don’t think too many non-Americans will “get” your (toxic) superfund reference . . .

 

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Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your point. I thought you were arguing that the “best drivers get the best cars” argument was erroneous in the case of LH because Hamilton wasn’t top-3 during those specific years.

I absolutely agree that it takes all three of those elements to produce the type of run that we’ve seen with Merc/Hamilton. Sounds like I misinterpreted your post.

 

Nobody called it an unfair advantage William, technical progress and (technical) advantages are part of F1 as we all know.

Button had the advantage in 2009, Hamilton has it since 2014 untill now. Which in itself says it all.

Is Hamilton part of the select group of best drivers ever ? yes he clearly is.

Is he the GOAT ? cannot be determined with any objectivity.

What's also clear is that the hybrid era is inflating his stats.

 

I don't subscribe to the GOAT concept.

Hamilton is the best of his time, that's what racing history will remember him for.

He has set the bar very high, and his stats will be a real challenge to anyone.

 

I'd vote Perez driver of the say. He protected Stroll's lead as long as he could. And when he had no more tires, he still fought off Vettel and Leclerc to hold on to second place. He also showed everyone else the way in Q3 by going out on Intermediate tires. And I think he would have had the pole if his final lap hadn't been compromised. Bottom line, only Hamilton beat Perez, and Perez beat everyone else.

 

He is great in the wet...look at his pace in qualifying and just about any wet race he's entered so far.

His problem started about 5 meters into the race when neither Red Bull appeared to suddenly stop accelerating. This put him on the back foot with a lot of time to make up. Then he made his way to Perez and got stuck there...the only overtaking spot and what do you have ahead of you, a Mercedes powered car, lol. Perez messed up and Max finally saw his opportunity, but it arrived at the wrong place and he only had the momentum at the kink. Back out and you lose the opportunity. Flat out and you risk the spin. The inevitable happened, he spun and pitted.

The last spin he had I had symptathy for....someone spun in front of Albon, Albon slows down, Max unsighted has to get out of throttle...weight transfer + momentum + icy track = spin.

Head definitely not in the right space for him this race. IMO his worst race I've seen him drive. No need to judge him on a one race, this year once again he's proven he's an incredibly mature driver. If we took this one race to judge on drivers, Bottas would be the worst driver on the planet, Stroll among the best and unlucky with his pit call, lol.

 

Well to the less informed maybe. Somehow to some Button's technical superiority seems different than Hamilton's.

What defines F1 since 2014 more than ever is the technical aspect, the hybrid era. The biggest technical regulation change in decades.

Mercedes set the bar very high, the driver's share diminished.

Ever since Hamilton is only challenged by his teammate. Well in Rosberg's case that is, Bottas is clearly the designated No.2 driver.

The gap even in 2020 is huge. Hamilton's stats are inflated.

 

Saturday the Lewis fans where saying it was 100% setup. That's where the comment comes from.

 

Exactemendo! Frankly whoever wins never enriches me so I could care less. I do have drivers I like a bit more than others like Leclerc, Vettel, Alonso next year but it doesn’t really matter. Objectively even with the best car Hamilton is a great driver who has made no mistakes this year or before that.
Id love to find a way to figure out how to truly assess who the best driver is objectively but we can only go with what we have so this era it’s Hamilton


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Strangely, I agree with your analysis. Max had a bad day today, but on the whole he is an excellent driver.

 

Experience right here


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IIRC It was Max in China 2018 (?) that did just this, start in 2nd gear and had a mega start in the wet...and no one else did it.

Here both Max and Albon initial getaway was good then both seemed to hit anti stall. The Honda start map hasn't been very good at any time. Maybe piss poor is best to describe it when it's wet.

 

Yes that's it. I keep saying it, no one seriously thinks Lewis is a bad driver, or merely ok. You don't win 7 titles by being an OK driver.

HOW good he is is difficult to assess, particularly because of the car he's been driving the last 8 years hasn't had any real competition, apart from the occasional race here and there. Ever since Rosberg left and Mercedes installed a dedicated #2 to bring some harmony in the team, he's been on easy street.

I think he's a very good driver. But the fact of the matter is that he has driven, in the last 8 years, a car that's had an enormous advantage over the competition. Part of that dominance is because of the rules that Mercedes, Renault and Audi wanted (the latter dropped out), part of that is Mercedes' excellent preparation, part of that is the FIA preventing development, massively hindering the competition.

Back in 2010-2013 Vettel got plenty of stick saying the only reason he won was because of the car...the same people are now saying Lewis wins because of how good he is. Double standard?

 

Agreed. For Vettel it proved sort of right. I mean the more I watch his RB days the more I Seeger was already making mistakes, he just was stronger mentally it seems and had more pace in a better car but frankly can’t say he was much different before.
Hamilton definitely is making little to no mistakes, he is the best driver. I just wish one could know exactly how much faster is the merc package and how much easier ( if at all) his car is to drive compared to the 2nd best team...we will never know. Would also love a driver that can challenge him on his own team but merc is too smart for such a move that would ruin the dynamic. We saw what happened with Rosberg.
If Nico stays I think the team implodes before and they don’t have 7 titles (could be wrong of course)


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And how will history rank Jenson ? Top 25 at best.

 

Based on his results int he last 5 years, it was indeed the car and not Vettel.

 

l never know because the car in front can drive as slowly as required as long as it remains in front.
But most of the year it has been a solid 1 second faster than last years Merc.

 

IMO opinion button redeemed himself with McLaren as a champion. I mean given how good the brown car was , the # of wins he had and the fact he coasted most of the 2nd of the season made him to me a rich man’s Damon hill BUT some of his performances with McLaren truly showed me the man had talent and was great in Changing conditions.


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All of these excuses of Hamilton is just to make some feel better. Button himself said he couldn't match Hamilton's speed and he is great. Both team mates of Senna and Schumacher said Hamilton is on or past their level. Whenever you see internet drivers disagreeing with so many past F1 drivers, you just have to let them be.

 

There is no doubt that the car plays in increasing important role in a driver's success; that has been discussed.
Add to that that a top team doesn't like its drivers to engage in on track fighting because it split the wins, causes occasional incidents, etc ...
Both Vettel and Hamilton, not forgetting Rosberg, won because they had an "unfair advantage", it could be said, but you still have to drive the bloody car !!!
I think Hamilton has demonstrated many times that he also could win against the odds in conditions that didn't favour his car.
Today was one of them. After a lacklustre performance in qualifs, he still managed to get a win out of the bag in difficult circumstances.
This, he has done time and time again, overcoming troubles to win with a stricken car, or managing his tyres better than the opposition
He has made mistakes too, lost when he could have won,but on the whole, he is a safe pair of hands.

I think in future, we will see more "Hamilton like" drivers, in the sense that whoever drives a car from the dominant team in the next formula will be tared with the same brush: "It's the car, init?"
The next dominant team could be Red Bull, or Ferrari, and team orders will apply surely to protect Verstappen or Leclerc if they are still there.

 

Still I Rise is also a well-known poem by Maya Angelou.

 

Still in the back of my mind there's the thought that Rosberg may have been ''sacked''. There was some weird chatter from everyone involved in the F1 team (toto, rosberg, lewis etc). One thing is clear: Rosberg leaving really was the best thing to happen for Mercedes. Rosberg has zero commercial value, and he posed a big threat for Lewis.

Yes it starts to look like that...he was very good in a car he really liked. But are we seeing the same right now? For a supposed GOAT Lewis has been beaten too many times by teammates he shouldn't. The Rosberg years where far from easy for Lewis.