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Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Apr 18, 2018.

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  1. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    More and higher in Ferrari say no freeze agreement!

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153175/ferrari-firmly-against-f1-engine-freeze-for-2022

    Ferrari has made clear it is "firmly against" the idea of a Formula 1 engine freeze from the start of 2022, despite Red Bull pushing for the plan.

    In the wake of Honda's decision to exit F1 at the end of next year, Red Bull has indicated that its preferred option is not to look elsewhere for a replacement power unit.

    Instead, it wants to do a deal with Honda where it takes over its engine programme and facilities,potentially in partnership with someone else, and then run the power units itself until new rules arrive by 2026 at the latest.

    However, for Red Bull to able to take on the engine programme, it wants there to be a complete freeze on development - as it cannot afford the huge expense of improving its performance against the might of manufacturers like Mercedes and Ferrari.

    A change to the F1 rules to freeze engine development from 2022 would require support from rival teams, and especially Ferrari, which retains a technical veto over rules as part of the new F1 Concorde Agreement.

    Although Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto drew short of committing the Italian team to any decision on the freeze last week, company CEO Louis Camilleri has emphatically ruled out any support for the plan.

    He believes that with the FIA pushing for a greater use of biofuels over the next few years, it will be impossible not to allow engine development to take place.

    Speaking to Gazzetta dello Sport, he declared: "We are firmly against freezing power units as it is against the spirit of F1.

    "I think it is important to emphasise that the current rules already provide for freezing in 2023. Plus, F1 has ambitious goals in terms of sustainability.

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    "Already from 2022, the regulations provide for the introduction of a fuel with a 10% ethanol content, but the FIA wants to reach 100% as soon as possible: ideally the following year.

    "This inevitably involves the development of some engine components. It is a very complicated subject, and we are actively talking about it with all the parties involved."
     
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  2. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    I'm an ethanol enthusiast so at least one good news. :p
     
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  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    For once I am in total agreement with Ferrari; there should be no engine freeze.

    First, constant development is the ethos of F1, and also teams should be able to catch up on engine power.

    Finally, I don't see why F1 should bow to Red Bull wishes.

    It's a case where Ferrari would be very justified to use its veto, IMO.
     
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  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    And so am I !!

    The conversion to ethanol as alternative fuel is a perfect example why F1 has to be relevent to the car industry.

    Ethanol, synthetic fuels and hydrogene are arguments for the ICE to fight back against electric power.
     
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  5. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    This is all too desperate and absurd. F1 isn't evolving, its dying, actually committing suicide.
     
  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's maybe not going the way you want, but I see no sign that it's dying yet.
     
  7. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    +1 agree
     
  8. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    This is from a team who used to build entirely new engines (different specifications) several time per year; worrying about an engine 6 years into the future.

    Bring back the 1970s.........F1 rules........and grid girls........
     
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  9. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    There is not fight back against electric power. All this dancing with synthetic fuels is just a show so they can claim they
    tried to make the ICE work, before they capitulate.
     
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  10. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    I strongly disagree. Electrical cars are very unpractical for long distances and I hope a new enlighment will bring us out of this dark age of CO2 religion. :)
     
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  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Electric vehicles don't give the flexibility ICE offers. They could be fine in town though, providing more charging points could be accessible to the public.
     
  12. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    Yes, they are good for the cities... But to manufacture their batteries you need to mine rare minerals and it will cause more harm to the environment than a modern ICE engine.
     
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  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The attraction of electric vehicles in town is that they are carbon zero and silent.
    Two arguments in their favour.
    Fleets of electric buses and delivery vans would be perfect in high density areas.
     
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  14. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    I have no love or interest in electric cars, I'm just looking at facts. They have a horrible "carbon footprint" when you include their manufacturing. But politics is not logic or science, and we are in a politically driven world. The battery technology will make the mileage/distance issue go away...and the couch potatoes of the world will embrace the transportation pod as an extension of their living rooms. There is a beautiful 1953 Aston Martin DB2 Drophead coupe on BaT right now that shows the automobile as art...much like a Maserati A6G2000 Zagato or the Pininfarina Ferraris of the same era. I could live a hundred years and always be happy with that generation of the automobile.
     
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  15. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    What's the story about photo with the Schumacher Ferrari helmet? I know Mick gave Lewis a helmet of his father's recently for matching his F1 victories, but that was a 2012 season Mercedes helmet with Monster energy logo and not that one.
     
  16. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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  17. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree that the manufacture and disposal of batteries can be harmful to the environment.
    But in contrast to fossil-fueled ICE, their use will be totally carbon free over their lifetime, if that's the goal.
    So it's a hard act to balance the pros and the cons.
    Like my grand mother used to say: "You don't make omelettes without breaking eggs!"
     
  18. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    What do you mean by "carbon free"?
     
  19. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Batteries don't discharge CO2.
     
  20. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    What's the problem with CO2?
     
  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas.
    Governments are trying to reduce it in the atmosphere.
     
  22. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Thank you. I wonder which F2004 chassis he drove that day. It doesn't have the chassis # on the nose, which is what the Clienti cars have like #234 he drove in Germany. I wonder if that is in fact #239 (winningest Ferrari F1 car). I thought I read an article of him thanking Ferrari and the car's owner separately so it may not be #239 in that case...can't image Ferrari selling that chassis. Michael only won with #234 and #239 in 2004.
     
  23. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    I am for ethanol except when you turn food into fuel.
     
  24. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    You might notice the polar ice sheets melting and sea levels rising.
    You might notice the vast fires in the west and Colorado.

    But perhaps you don't care about the lives people get to live........
     
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  25. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    The fires are easily solved by controlled burns. The green lunatics campaigned it wasn't allowed to happen anymore. That's why Australia was on fire start of 2020. That's why California is on fire all the time. The aboriginals did controlled burns since the year zero, as they knew the catastrophe that will happen when they didn't.

    Force shipping industry to run cleaner engines. if co2 was such a big issue, they'd have done this already.
     

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