So I own a Huracan, Porsche Turbo S and a 458 Ferrari I have won track events with Porsche and after purchase of Ferrari I was not impressed with brakes. Do I need to upgrade brakes on a 458 to get it to stop? really disappointed with this car .
Guys, ease up on Ferrari brakes. They are amazing (and yes, so are the Porsche brakes, both ceramic and iron). As per above, this sounds like a bedding issue. When you initially bed carbon ceramic brakes, as they heat up (and I mean, really heat up) for the first time, you will get something called "green fade". This is a degassing of the pads. When you bed the brakes as described elsewhere in this thread by slowly bringing them up to temperature with increasingly strong stops from increasing speed, you will know you have reached the proper temperature because the pads will suddenly seemingly fade. This is often accompanied by a horrible smell and smoke coming from the pads. This is "green fade". Allow a proper cooling period after, let them sit overnight, and they are ready to go and as the OP discovered, they will be better than ever the next day. This needs to be repeated anytime you put new pads on the car. By the way, look under your Pista. There are lovely brake ducts along with all kinds of other scoops for cooling in the underbody panels. Ferrari knows what they are doing.
I know about the ducts. That being said, a very interesting thing about the Pista is, that only the fronts have additional cooling, not the rears. Remember that I have had the system apart on both the regular 488 and Pista changing pads and discs. I have measured temps on both cars, and while there is a difference between 488 temps and Pista temps, they are not very big. The absolutely biggest temp difference came from switching discs - almost 100 degrees C. No I will not cut Ferrari some slack. In this area they can do much better, that's not subjective opinion, that's fact - they are resting on the laurels. Try a GT3RS iron rotor with Endless pads or a 488/Pista, or Porsche for that matter with CCST discs, and it becomes clear as day how far behind the old CCM brakes feel. Even the standard PCCB discs feel a lot better than the Brembo CCM. I have tried it, I know how it transforms the car, I know what better brakes are capable of on both the 488 and Pista. Unless you try it, how can you say what is possible? We as customers need to be vigilant in our expectations and demands. Look at Ferraris "algorithm" regarding wear. That is the single biggest load of ********* they have dreamt up. This I have directly from a Brembo rep. I've seen the "worn" discs myself. Shiny, smooth and perfectly fine. That is a blatant ripoff. Want to take it one step further? The infamous code Ferrari will only give you when you purchase new OE discs and the dealer supposedly cannot bypass? B.S! Not only can they bypass it, they have the ability to disengage it PERMANENTLY! Luckily there is a solution when the dealer tech gets stubborn. Any show with a Texa Axone Nemo can do this. So yes, when it comes to Ferraris brake technology, I'm far from impressed, and when it comes to their practices about disc wear and aftermarket upgrades.in this regard, they have me absolutely livid. It does not need to be like this. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Couldnt agree with you more. And it should not be like this. There is no excuse for it at their claimed level of engineering. A few laps in a gt2rs is a real lesson in reality of just how far behind Ferrari is in certain key areas. No wonder mclaren has been giving them such a spanking. God help them once 765 is unleashed. Ferrari is going to need more than 1000hp.
No doubt it will be fast, but I'm not so sure it will run with the SF90. While there's a weight penalty, there's also something to be said for the instant torque as well as the ability to use proper four wheel torque vectoring.
There may have been some kind of residue on the rotors, for example tire shine. I have tracked my Pista many times, and also the ones at the Ferrari school, never had an issue with brake fade. I did experience the exact thing you describe on another car, the amount of smoke was crazy. It all ended up being some kind of chemical on the rotors. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I ran mine the other day at the track, 10 to 12 laps and speeds up to 165mph on the straight with no brake fade whatsoever. I did heat the rears pretty good and they now squeal quite a bit. The dealer tells me the pads wore a bit and there is nothing they can do other than to replace the pads. Something doesn't seem right to me but not sure what options I have. The pads still have plenty of surface so it would be premature to swap.
The OE pads are rubbish for track. They don't last and modulation is mediocre at best. Your dealer will not work with you, but there are options. It is very easy to change pads, so just delete the dealer and his price gouging from the equation. Then get Pagid RSL1 pads. They are long lasting endurance pads and can be used with both CCM and CCST rotors. They are also a lot cheaper than OE pads. Not quiet, but awesome performance. You need pad shape 4580 for the front and 4581 for the rear. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I am going to order the Pagids today, I have another track day coming in a few weeks and these pads truly are crap. Thank you for the tip, I appreciate it.
You are welcome. Be aware that as they are race pads, they need a good bedding in. You can also order them pre-bedded. They aren't quiet but neither are OE pads. At least with these there's a reason for the sound lol Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Are RSC2 pads any quieter than RSL1s? Seems that’s a good pad for street and track. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
Somewhat. But the RSC2 for the 488 style caliper is no longer in production. Aside from the sound, the RSL1 is an awesome pad no matter what. Also, while the RSC2 is quiet with CCST discs, it is no more quiet than OE pads on OE discs. A great street pad and I wish they would put it back into production, but I think the RSL1 is a great alternative. For CCST users, the RSC2 would be the ticket for sure though, as that provides a performance that is pretty close to RSL1 but with the quietness of the RSC1. But as part of the noise s just CCM rotors by nature, not much can be done other than RSC1 if you want those quiet.
Have you considered running a better fluid? Your dealer is allowed to change it as Ferrari allow you run the brake fluid of your choice as long as you bring it yourself. Motul RBF660 or Costrol SRF are good choices.
This the problem with Ferrari as a track car unfortunately and why I feel its better suited/ preserved for sporty road type driving. The brakes are good but they really do lack feel in comparison to the Porsche Gt2/3 which is in ways disappointing given Ferraris claimed heritage. Ferrari need to stop all the BS elitism and focus on producing a proper car that actually works. The way it stands there really is no substitute for a car you can take to the track and beat on all day and then drive home without obvious after-effects. My advice is just put a new set of pads in and hope the squeal goes away and buy yourself a GT car for the circuit. At least every works and holds up without costing you a fortune.
Seriously? I wouldn't say lambo brakes are any good on a circuit. From what I've both seen and heard Ferrari are ahead of Lambos game at least. But Porsche no - they are well ahead. Ferrari and lambo are cars you track if you've got a lot of money to burn. PS. John265, Ferrari's brakes could easily be mistaken as being amazing - the be all end all - until you drive a Gt car. Then reality drops on top of you like a ton of bricks. Even their steels are way way better than Ferrari's Ceramics.
My fellow track rat Shadowfax is right on this one. If anything, the Lambo brake setup is even worse. They are both old school Brembo rotors, and both use T4300 pads. The difference is that Lambo has way worse brake cooling. I've yet to track a modern era Lambo that did not cook its brakes. Maybe they gave the SVJ more cooling, but the regular Aventador, the Gallardo and Huracan have terrible brake cooling. Ferrari brakes suffer from poor modulation and poor wear characteristics, but they stop the car. I like the idea of upgraded brakes vs. a Porsche GT, that's me. If I wanted a Porsche that's what I'd buy. But I wanted a Ferrari and I have found a way to fix the brakes so they are as good or better than Porsche brakes. For me a Ferrari with good brakes is win win. There are several ways to skin a kangaroo. Upgraded brakes is mine. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
For sure, anything can be fixed if you throw enough money at it but the point here is more than enough money has been paid for the car already so by rights it all should work properly but sadly it doesn't which can only mean one thing.
A track car should he able to do 15 laps without cooking the pads and I barely hit the brakes and I let them cool in between sessions. With this said the car did handle pretty well but could use some suspension alignment. I was much faster than anything else out there and I'll give most of the credit to the car. I'll try the pagids next event in a couple weeks and report back.
I'd agree the Pista is robust but the brakes are a bit of a let down. They feel like they are a generation or two behind the Porsche's. Lambo i'd agree its not often you'd see one run continuous laps at a serious track day where times are being set. One of the guys in our group has a perf but has other cars. When he takes it out he runs a few laps and comes in. Id say he knows the score with the running costs. I also know a guy who joins on a few dedicated Porsche days who owned a Lambo Huracan but he got rid of it after it burnt the brakes right out from a day. He still moans about how much it cost him to replace all the rotors lol. He couldn't believe how short the brake life was. An expensive lesson.
