Good Track Tires for a 488 | FerrariChat

Good Track Tires for a 488

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Alex96321, Oct 27, 2020.

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  1. Alex96321

    Alex96321 Rookie

    Aug 24, 2020
    4
    Full Name:
    Alex Danze
    Just purchased my first 488 Spider and am looking for good recommendations on great track tires. Preferably slicks. Trying to keep budget limited since i plan on tracking frequently, so really looking for best value.
     
  2. Alex96321

    Alex96321 Rookie

    Aug 24, 2020
    4
    Full Name:
    Alex Danze
    Does anyone make a roll bar for a 488 Spider? Looking to set it up for frequent track events and making it safe. Thanks!
     
  3. ShadowLAP

    ShadowLAP Formula Junior

    May 15, 2017
    544
    SW Suburbs of Chicago, IL
    Full Name:
    Lawrence P.
    I run Hoosier R7 and A7 on a Corvette with good success. The Tire Rack has good prices. Ask for Luke Pavlick for a good assessment of what would work best for you.
     
  4. Alex96321

    Alex96321 Rookie

    Aug 24, 2020
    4
    Full Name:
    Alex Danze
    Would you have a number for Luke Pavlick?
     
  5. ShadowLAP

    ShadowLAP Formula Junior

    May 15, 2017
    544
    SW Suburbs of Chicago, IL
    Full Name:
    Lawrence P.
    888-353-5082, x4352. Mention Larry Pagliaro
     
  6. jdlegg

    jdlegg Karting

    Dec 22, 2009
    231
    Bryan
    Full Name:
    James D
    Tracking regularly is incongruent with limited budget. :)
     
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  7. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
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    A.B
    Question. Have any of you who say Hoosiers even tried them on a 488 Spider? With a proper alignment, the 488 Spider is only just capable of coping with Trofeo R tyres.

    Here's what I run, and unless you're willing to use a set of tyres per track day, this is my suggestion.

    Run the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 in the N1 spec. Gives you 12mm more tread width than K2 Cup 2's and better stability.

    You can opt for the Nankang AR-1 which offers grip on the same level as Trofeo R, but cheaper and with better side walls.

    If you don't change the alignment, you cannt run a tyre that is more sticky than Cup 2's, and even they struggle. With stock alignment you will wear the outsides on the fronts fast. Try a Cup 2 R, Trofeo R, AR-1 or Hoosier, and it is just tyre destruction mayhem.

    In order for either the Cup 2 or AR-1 to actually live, you need front camber. There are limits as to how much camber you can give the 488, and that is the primary limiting factor for your tyres. For a sticky tyre like a Hoosier to work on a 488, you'll need at least -3.5 degrees of camber and about -2.2 is the safe limit.

    I have over 10k track km on my 488 Spider so I knkw a bit about what it takes.

    I'll be more than happy to share some alignment numbers, as you cannot properly track with the factory setup.

    So the answer to your tyre question is either Cup 2 N1 soec or AR-1.

    But hey, if you think tyres will be your expense, guess again. Brakes is the name ofvthe game. Forget the OE pads. Lasts about 700-800 km on track. For frequent track use, you want Pagid RSL1 pads. I run them with CCST discs, but they can also be run with OE discs. They are not only cheaper than OE, they also oerform a lot better and lasts a lot longer. Once your discs are worn down, switch to CCST discs

    You should run either Castrol SRF or Motul RBF 660 brake fluid. The stock fluid is not up to the task. I'm switching to Motul as I hope to gain a bit more firmness. Also, don't forget to have your dealer do the first fluid change. When switching brake fluid, the ABS valves needs to be cycled. The good news is that Ferrari lets you use what ever brake fluid youvwant.

    Get HEL Performance brake lines. The stock rubber lines do not like the heat from the brakes.

    Speaking of heat. You need to monitor the bushes in the front. They deteriorate from the brake heat.

    As you can see, turning a street car into a track car, is not cheap. And be aware that it will be expensive. Between my 488 and Pista, I look at three sets of tyres, and lots of pads if OE pads. RSL1 pads can last for 24 hours on a GT3. So that sort of puts it into perspective. They are perfectly streetable. Great cold bite and much better modulation. But they will be louder than OE pads.

    If you want a roll cage and harnesses, you bought the wrong car. Cannot be done.

    That's my advice based on countless hours and km spent on track.

    Have fun.




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  8. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
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    A.B
    That's a bit of an understatement.

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  9. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    Well I just logged on and was going to answer this...but... I’ll-CoPilota beat me to it.

    I have been tracking street cars since 2005.... one this I’d add...if you are beginning then you can learn better and safer on street tires. They will give audible warning when you are nearing the end of grip plus they break away slower than a tire like a Hoosier R7.

    Co-Pilota is very correct... the car can’t cope with slicks or Hoosier R7, suspension and brake are not up to the task.
     
  10. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    A.B
    Did we scare the OP away?

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  11. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
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  12. Farbod Farmand

    Nov 20, 2020
    17
    southern California

    This is a perfect review! I regularly track my GT3 and love the AR-1s. Moving to a 488 GTB and looking to track often. would you please send me you track alignment and camber setup? Also, I was planning to change rotors to steel for track.... What do you think? thx
    [email protected]
     
  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
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    A.B
    Here's what I'd do in your case. I'd go an inbetween what I run on the Pista and 488.

    Remember that it is very individual, so try both of these. I find both to run well, they just feel different.

    Lower the car approx 15 mm and bias the weight 42.5/57.2.
    If you do not have access to corner weights, lower the rear 15mm and the front 13mm. That will put you in the ballpark. Make damn sure the shop that lowers your car know what they are doing. These shocks are notorious for seizing up when being adjusted.

    Setup 1

    Front:
    Toe. -12 minutes
    Camber. -1.9 degrees.

    Resr:
    Toe. -9 minutes
    Camber. -2.0 degrees

    Setup 2

    Front:
    Toe. +7 minutes
    Camber. -1.9

    Rear
    Toe. -14 minutes
    Camber. -2 degrees.

    When you adjust the front camber, start by removing the top washers. You will want the top A arm as far in as possible. Then add the washers along with what ever camber shims you need in the bottom to set the camber.

    Setup 2 will probably feel more farmiliar to you coming from a GT3. I personally like setup 1 more. Not quite as well rounded as setup 2, but a bit more agile. Both are vastly superior to the understeering OE setup. Setup 2 will run very well with the AR-1's. Just make sure the pressure don't climb. Set them so the car runs squared 2.15 bar hot.

    I'll get back to you on brakes. But I can say straight up that I run Surface Trasforms CCST discs and Pagid RSL1 pads. Don't care for the heavy steelies and with resurfacing available for CCST discs, I don't see any cost benefit on steel.



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  14. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    A.B
    Last bit. For a 488 you track often, upgrade the brake fluid and brake lines. The stock rubber lines don't like the heat. Get HEL Performance braided ptfe lines.
    Use either Motul RBF 660 or Castrol SRF fluid. The Motul has less compression than Castrol, and many like that.

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  15. Farbod Farmand

    Nov 20, 2020
    17
    southern California
    Yes, agree. upgraded the brake lines on the GT3 and have tried both of those fluids.
     
  16. Farbod Farmand

    Nov 20, 2020
    17
    southern California
    Thank you for this input, very helpful.

    I'm planning to run AR-1s since I know them pretty well, so I'll try setup #2. For the CC discs, can I run the OEM CC with the RSL1, or do I need to change to the Surface Transforms? How many hard 20min sessions do this brake set up last, approximately? Does it stay consistent throughout the day? I use Pagid yellows; bite as good?

    Btw; I started with the AR-s1 around 2.15 bar hot but have noticed better times and braking/mid corned @ ~1.95

    Thx again
     
  17. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    My alignment is closer to stock ...slightly more aggressive.... my toe is in stock spec. Front camber .3 degrees than max stock spec and rear camber is .1 degree more than stock spec.

    On the street this is working fine. I’ll see how it works at the track soon. I’m use to more camber up front than rear camber in my Porsche’s....will see how this works in my 488 with stock size Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires

    FRONT
    Camber -1.3 degrees
    Toe -.09 degrees (outward)

    REAR
    Camber -1.6 degrees
    Toe +.15 degrees (inward)
     
  18. Farbod Farmand

    Nov 20, 2020
    17
    southern California

    Thx, Let us know how it feels on the track.
     
  19. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    Yes you can run stock discs with RSL1.
    Last? They will never fade. Just to put it in perspective. With CCST discs and fluid, I have had them over 700 c and the pedal felt the same. These pads are made to run 12+ hours, hard! 20 mins? That's nothing for those. Just make sure you use,a good fluid. Your Ferrari dealer can change the fluid, and should. You need to cycle the ABS when switching vluid, so the computer is needed. Luckily Ferrari allows you to run the fluid of your choice as long as you bring it. Just bring 3 litres.

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  20. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
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    A.B
    Tyre pressures also depends on your style. If they drop too far, add some air. 2.15 works for me.

    Regarding the pads. The RSL1 is also a yellow Pagid, i.e an endurance pad. Am I guessing right if the yellow Pagid you refer to, is the classic RSL29? If so, look at the RSL1 this way. 30 year newer tech. It is an endurance pads like an RSL29, but it is longer lasting with a higher friction coefficient. At 100 c it has more stopping power than Ferrari OE pads at 400c. If you like RSL29's, you will love the RSL1. Like the 29, they are not super quiet, but boy do they deliver. Amazing track pad that works great on the road with some noise. They are race pads, they are just not silent.

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  21. Farbod Farmand

    Nov 20, 2020
    17
    southern California
    Correct, referring to the RS 29. I do about 8-10 track days in California, each day about four 20min sessions. Never used CCB, but with the
    Brembo type 3 rotors, I do feel fade at the end of the day. Thx for the advice.
     
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