Keep Precat or remove it? please advise | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Keep Precat or remove it? please advise

Discussion in '360/430' started by eskanday, Mar 12, 2018.

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  1. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 2, 2010
    1,943
    San Diego CA
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    Fernando
    Fabspeed headers and stock cats triggered a CEL (421/431 IIRC) which I fixed with Fabspeed mini cat extenders AND overnight battery kill switch.
    Eventually I installed hyper flow cats (similar to Fabspeed’s) my mechanic told me he tested emissions with the hyper flow cats and he said he doubt it it will trigger a CEL even without the extenders. I asked him to install them just to be safe. Two years later no CEL.


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  2. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
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    360trev
    Guys my Swiss army knife latest version now has an automatic option to enable and disable secondary cat efficiency sensing directly in the ROM code of the ignition ECUs. Once reflashed you'll never have a problem again and you can remove the post cat O2s and fit a bung if you want.

    I'll add 430 support soon now but fully operational on all 360s now. Will do a version which doesn't disable secondary o2s but just alters their threshold for triggering the CEL to make them much less sensitive.
     
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  3. Ralph P

    Ralph P Rookie

    Aug 10, 2018
    27
    London, United Kingdom
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    Ralph Payne
    That sounds like the optimum solution, to account for revised emissions parameters and retaining data to the ECUs.
     
  4. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
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    Yes that is next although it's pretty easy to force readiness on these ECU's. What a dumb ass by design solution, why didn't each test center just sniff tailpipe emissions (like everyone else does around the world!) rather than allowing the car to tell it what's being read. Dieselgate was just waiting to happen...
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  5. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    May 20, 2018
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    I will not install am headers until trev software update is avail to force readiness.

    I will not drive my f car w an obd dongle connected so I can reset codes every other drive. No way!
     
  6. bisel

    bisel Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2012
    1,138
    Scottsdale, Arizona
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    Steve Bisel
    An update ...

    I mentioned earlier that with the Fabspeed headers, you eliminate the pre-cats in the stock header. Threw the P0421 / P0431 codes that the catalytic converter is not operating efficiently. Put on O2 extenders or mini-cats and then received P0139 / P0159 codes that the downstream O2 sensors have slow response times.

    My thought is that the sensor were too far outside of the exhaust stream. The dimensions of the O2 extender are ...
    • Overall length: 48mm
    • Internal thread 18mm diameter
    • Internal throat depth: 35mm
    • Exit hole size: 6.5mm
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    The critical element is the throat depth is deep enough so you can thread the Ferrari O2 sensor without bottoming out. On the Ferrari 360, the O2 sensor depth is about 21mm.

    OK, my thought is that perhaps the O2 needs to inserted a bit more ... not directly in the exhaust stream, but a bit more. If you mosey on down to the local Autozone you can acquire what is called a spark plug anti-fouler. This is basically a shorter version of the O2 extender.
    • Overall length: 32mm
    • Internal thread 18mm diameter
    • Internal throat depth: 18.5mm
    • Exit hole size: 6.5mm

    I gently drilled the through depth about 5mm deeper to accept the O2 sensor. I had be careful here cuz if you go too deeply you compromise the side walls on the external threads of the extender. Ask me how I know.

    I have just finished installing these shorter extenders and the O2 sensors. Will report back on results. If this doesn't work, then plan B to install new bungs further downstream on the cats ... see ferralc's post (https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/keep-precat-or-remove-it-please-advise.571437/page-3#post-146507408)

    Actually, may try to enlarge the exit hole of the extender first ... maybe go from 6.5 mm to 12 mm diameter. We'll see how this first iteration works out.

    Steve
     
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  7. bisel

    bisel Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2012
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    Went for 75 mile drive. No CEL. Not entirely conclusive, but encouraging.

    Steve
     
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  8. Thomas Woolsey

    Dec 21, 2017
    7
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    Thomas Woolsey
    So now years later, did Trev finish the software and is it available to download? I can read and write the ECU almost at will.
     
  9. BrettC

    BrettC Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2012
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    I popped out my precats on my 04 360, added extenders on downstream sensors and not an issue in 2 years....
     
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  10. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,529
    the other angle is to weld in bungs in the tail of the main cats, set it up like a '99
     
  11. Thomas Woolsey

    Dec 21, 2017
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    Thomas Woolsey
    I was wondering about that and ow it worked. I want to rid my pre-cats but they are like lead in the pipe and I can't see any way to gt them out except to cut up the header and heat shield. How did you get the out?
     
  12. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    May 20, 2018
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    Tom- can you ram a long metal rod like rebar in there and break the cat matrix out? We used to do this to the 5.0 mustangs back in the 90’s.
     
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  13. Thomas Woolsey

    Dec 21, 2017
    7
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    Thomas Woolsey
    I have tried drilling, hammering, poking, banging, screaming, and received a sore hand from hitting it with the hammer after missing the bar. The **** is metal and like tin foil, the more the bang it, the more like a ball of lead it becomes. I don't know what to do to get it out.
    I remember the old cats but I think that they are ceramic and brittle
     
  14. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    Isle of man- uk
    There was a pic on here a few weeks ago, they cut a window in the side, then welded it back after removing the honeycomb
     
  15. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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  16. Thomas Woolsey

    Dec 21, 2017
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    Thomas Woolsey
    hessank likes this.
  17. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    If you do it this way be sure to prepare the patch properly and TIG weld it back on. A MIG makes a mess of it
     
  18. Thomas Woolsey

    Dec 21, 2017
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    Thomas Woolsey
    I can see the importance of the TIG over the MIG and your point is well taken. MIG welding means grinding and TIG welding means a mice flat weld.
     
  19. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    Half the MIG welds i see look like machine gun fire, I like to gas weld jobs like that but takes more time,but looks a lot better.
     
  20. Thomas Woolsey

    Dec 21, 2017
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    Thomas Woolsey
    I agree. I have gotten some goo flat welds from a MIG welder but things have to be just right and at least 98% Argon 2% CO2
     
  21. BrettC

    BrettC Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2012
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