Pista Exhaust Upgrade | Page 19 | FerrariChat

Pista Exhaust Upgrade

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by dustman, Aug 13, 2019.

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  1. SECRET

    SECRET Formula Junior
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    @Pazzo009 Before you get too disappointed, I can guarantee you that with 200 cell downpipes, you *should* see a massive difference off throttle (i.e. during deceleration) so long as the valve controller is keeping the valves open.

    Again, I did everything step by step.

    1. Controller ONLY first <-- This put a big smile on my face once it worked right
    2. Controller + Muffler <-- This made me wonder why I spent so much money on the muffler only (pretty awful after-sales support from a vendor on this site as well. won't get into details, but they were talking out of their ass when i tried to cancel the order a week into a 10-12 week build cycle. gave me some BS to make me feel good then left me with some ****ty choices after. never buying from those guys again.)
    3. Controller + Muffler + Downpipes <-- This was 100% what I was looking for. I'm not sure if I like the sound the muffler makes, but overall it sounds pretty awesome.
    4. Controller + Muffler + Downpipes + OBD Wizard <-- This is the setup I have now. CEL comes on periodically then goes out after the next restart.​

    If I had to do it again, I would start with controller, then controller + downpipes. The muffler is kind of pointless without the downpipes.
     
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  2. Pazzo009

    Pazzo009 Formula Junior
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    When you say downpipes, do you mean cats, or are you straight piped?
     
  3. Pazzo009

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    I put this together quickly to show what's happening

     
  4. SECRET

    SECRET Formula Junior
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    Sorry, downpipe is just the connection between the turbo & the muffler in this case. The downpipe itself can be a straight/test pipe without any cats, 100 Cell high flow cats (HFCs), or 200 Cell HFCs. In my case they are 200 Cell.

    I'm almost positive the tech did not connect the controller to the right solenoids. It's an easy fix that should take less than hour to reroute. When idling, switching the modes should not result in any change in the tone/sound of the car. I'll PM more details offline
     
  5. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Pazzo it would appear your controller has no stock setting - just has a valves always open and a valves always closed setting. This is not desirable at all. A properly sorted controller should be allowing the stock ecu to control the valves without any interference from the valve controller ECU and never be able to hold them closed like this. With the Forza controller which I have on my Pista it has 2 modes - (A) which is the stock setting which allows the stock ecu fully control over the valves as per usual and the other setting (B) to keep the valves open all the time. On idle the valves should always be open in both modes. To have the valves locked closed is really not a good situation at all. I'd get it back to the dealers asap and just drive with the valves open in the meantime until you can get it resolved.
     
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  6. Lagunae92

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    Or one could be working as stock and the other always closed? (Which is what I had at the beginning). Good news is that you are going to love it soon!
     
  7. Shadowfax

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    #457 Shadowfax, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    No not the case here at all. Pazzo's controller is clearly interfering with the stock ecu as the valves are heard as shut on idle in the stock setting. They should never be shut! I repeat - the exhaust flaps are ALWAYS open on idle - never closed. I recall Steve Bisel Forza saying how he was still yet to find a way of deleting the piggy back valves which he incorporated so to trick the cars main ecu from knowing it was being interfered with. He said his system totally divorces itself from the stock ECU and that Capistros does not.

    In the case of Pazzo's, the valves are able to be held shut on idle which is Capristos stock setting so this clearly shows the stock setting is corrupted and is not functioning as it should be. If a controller is corrupting the stock ecu settings then it really has no value at all and in this situation you may as well just peg the valves open and do away with the controller altogether or better still just leave the stock ECU control the valves. With the valves pegged permanently open renders the mufflers redundant as when the valves are open the mufflers are being bi passed.
     
  8. Lagunae92

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    Maybe, hard to tell. valves started open, then they were closed, then opened, then I heard "1" I think, and they closed. Whatever it is, good luck Pazzo and hope it works perfectly soon. Haven't heard of problems with the Capristo remote aside from the Pista polarity issue.
     
  9. Shadowfax

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    #459 Shadowfax, Oct 24, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
    It's unmistakably clear that when Pazzo switches between one and two on idle the valves are open in one setting and then closed in the next - both on idle. So there can be no mistake that the controller has corrupted the stock ecu setting as in stock setting the valves should always remain open on idles as is the case when the controller is activated. This has always posed a problem for the installer in identifying if the controller is working because the only way you can tell is to drive the car above idle rpms in an off load situation and then activate the controller. Only then you will be able to identify if the controller is doing its job properly when you activate it to hold the valves open all the time because in a mobile off throttle situation where the car is above idle the valves will close in the stock mode and then re open at certain rpms and engine loads under the control of the stock ecu.

    It could be the case here that the Capristo guys haven't identified this problem and just think the controller is working properly because the valves can be opened and closed by the controller when the car is stationary at idle when in fact it is actually identifying the controller has corrupted the stock mode because the valves should NEVER be able to be closed like that at idle. The only way to properly test is to be driving the car and in this situation you will hear the change when the controller activates the valves to remain open. In the stock mode the valves will open and close under the control of the stock ECU as it determines the throttle position, engine rpms and engine load. This is why when you are doing performance type driving you are best leaving the control of the valves to the stock ECU so you get the full benefits of Ferrari's engineering. Now if the controller is corrupting the stock valve programming then what is the point of even having a controller? From what I can also tell with the F8 Capristro it appears to manifest much the same problem because from all the clips I've heard so far they all show the valves opening in one mode and then closing in the other mode on idle and that is not how its supposed to be. It may be able to trick the ECU to run the engine without throwing a CEL but the control of the valves has been corrupted in stock setting as evidenced by the closure of the valves on idle.
     
  10. Lagunae92

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    Let me be more clear with the problem I had. When I initially had the Capristo remote installed at my dealer, I got in the car and noticed that setting 1 was the same as it had been, so in stock mode, and setting 2 seemed to close the valves and keep them closed. I drive off to see if anything would change, but no, the valves remained closed the entire time in setting 2, where they should have been open. I brought the car back and they were to take a look at it in the morning. I also personally called Capristo and asked what the issue could be, and was told they needed to reverse the polarity of the solenoid with the magnet included in the kit. Simple fix, and when I called my dealer, they agreed and had already taken care of it. Zero issues since. The dealer, not having installed a remote on a Pista yet, assumed there should be a difference at idle when you press the 2 button on the remote. On every other Ferrari with a remote installed, button 1 and 2 sound different at idle, but as we know this is not the case for the Pista. This is what it sounds like to me with Pazzo’s car. Maybe it’s not. I’m not saying I am correct and obviously haven’t spent the time on this as you have, but I had a similar problem and it was an easy fix.
     
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  11. Shadowfax

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    #461 Shadowfax, Oct 24, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
    Sounds a bit dodgy if you need a magnet to reverse the polarity. Desirably there would be no interference between the controller and the stock ECU which is why Steve made it clear why the best way is to divorce the controller from the ECU entirely. No matter which way you slice it the Capistro controller is plugged into the ECU and is tricking it not to throw a CEL when it takes over. And this is it - it has taken over. So in this instance how would anyone know what the knock on effects are from doing that - considering how quirky Ferrari's electronics can be even on a good day - and, if the stock setting is indeed functioning 100% and not corrupted in any way? How would anyone know now?
     
  12. Pazzo009

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    I think we finally got this sorted out. This wouldn't escape my mind and based on what I was experiencing, what you guys are saying, and engine logic...I decided to not wait too bring it to my tech and mess with it myself. I got to the module and used the magnet to reverse it. After I did that when you hit either 1 or 2, no change in sound occurred.

    More importantly, I realized something. That change in sound I was saying after 5000 rpms WOT was a unique sound (and it sounded good actually) but it was not only an engine sound, but also an air rushing sound. Almost like if you took a leaf blower and held it front of a screen.

    So it finally dawned on me what was occurring, the valve was closed in that setting and the sound I was hearing was a hinderance of air being able to escape. Furthermore, after going on a few runs, it also became apparent that in the setting I just mentioned, I was losing power.

    So as now it's in the reverse setting and it's operating at full open. In this setting, I am noticing more turbo whistle and more burbles on decel.

    I am still happy with the exhaust. I prefer more noise and a higher pitch, but this is the nature of turbos.

    I greatly appreciate all of you guys who took the time to share your knowledge and experience with me thus providing a solution.
     
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  13. Lagunae92

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    Great. EXACTLY as I was saying shadow
     
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  14. Lagunae92

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    When my valves were held closed because of the polarity issue, it was a pretty interesting sound. Just wish it was louder. Look forward to the vids now to compare.
     
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  15. SECRET

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    You may still want to get the tech to check the connections. Even with polarity set incorrectly, there should have never been a sound change at idle by switching between modes.

    Based on your comments about wishing it was louder, I still wonder if the right solenoids are connected.
     
  16. Lagunae92

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    Idle sound changes via remote are a polarity issue in my experience. But agree, have it all checked out. Not worth a risk.
     
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  17. Shadowfax

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    No sweat and hope it all works out Pazzo. Its an expensive car and things need to be spot on. What I would be checking for now is how the stock setting is working and if the valves are opening and closing as they were prior to the controller being installed. What troubles me from what ive seen so far is that it appears the capistros controllers main purpose is to stop CEL during valves either as open in one setting or, closed in the other. The very fact it was able to stop the ECU from throwing up a CEL when the polarity was previously wrong indicts the stock ecu had absolutely no means of determining that the engine was running with a massively increased back-pressure. This is not good. I can recall when I was guinea pig for Steve some of the feedback the master tech here relayed to me from his communications with his engineer buddies in Ferrari hq and he said their main concern was that the controller did not integrate into the ECU system in any way shape or form. It was only after they were shown the diagram for the Forza controller that they gave the tech here the nod to proceed with the install and to report. They even then advised him to tell me to NEVER run the engine hard with the valves held open outside of the control of the main ecu so I can imagine the same would apply by running the engine hard with the valves locked closed. The fact this particular controller is integrated and is able to stop the ecu from recognizing a massively increased back-pressure is a warning sign. I can see why there was a lot of concern at the time over mine and why they were dead against anything interfering with the main ECU. One thing my tech also said was if the controller had the functionality to keep the valves closed then he was not going to install it as the engine is not designed to run with the valves locked closed and is a recipe for disaster.
     
  18. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    I really wonder why Capristro even has a fully closed option ?

    I don't like the idea of OEM ECU connection. Whether it works or not I just wouldn't go that way.

    In case of failure of the Capristro what is the default setting ? Ild hate to be at 7,500 rpms travelling 250 kms /hr and the valves are closed.

    Just doesn't make sense to me having a closed option.
     
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  19. Lagunae92

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    It does NOT have a closed option. It has to do with the installation procedure. In regards to the Pista, since the valves do not start closed as do all of the other cars, the polarity of the valve function has to be reversed. Whatever that means. It's not a big deal, as it was a very simple fix. Now, since mine is working perfectly, there are two functions which can beselected or if you press buttons 3 and 4, programmed as default: 1)stock 2)valves always open. Simple as that.
     
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  20. Shadowfax

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    #470 Shadowfax, Oct 24, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
    You'd be surprised how many owners of these high end cars really don't know much about engines and what make them tick or blow etc. Most rely far too much upon what the aftermarket vendors assure as being fine when in many cases it's not fine at all. It's nearly as if an aftermarket component doesn't blow something up on an engine then it stands as adequate proof it must be fine when in reality it's not fine at all. If only some of these guys got to see what goes toward component testing and simulation of failures I can guarantee there would be whole new school of thought amongst owners of these cars. When an engine is tuned to this level of hp and performance it really doesn't take much to cause some degree of damage or premature wear. In the case of the Pista engine I would personally be very cautious about altering it from stock. I generally don't see any issue relieving back-pressure on a turbo charged engine by fitting high flow cats or aftermarket systems so long as the existing tuning can accommodate the changes. What I know so far about the Pista engine is that it is in a highly tuned and finely balanced state with a lot of sensors added to keep everything in check. If you add something into the system which tricks the ECU then you got to ask yourself how much testing has that company really done to know what they are doing is not creating any problems elsewhere in the system.
     
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  21. Pazzo009

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  22. ShineKen

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    Is it me or did that vid not sync properly?
     
  23. SECRET

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    Correct. Audio is out of sync
     
  24. Pazzo009

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    Thank you... You guys are right. I deleted that vid and uploaded another and it's doing it. I suppose it's youtube because it doesn't play on my media like that. I'll re-attempt tomorrow.

    My apologies
     
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  25. Pazzo009

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    I've tried to upload this video to youtube 4 times and the audio is out of sync. If anyone wants to hear a few clips, go to my Instagram and you'll see it posted.

    Instagram is - Pazzo009
     

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