355 headers/manifold | Page 10 | FerrariChat

355 headers/manifold

Discussion in '348/355' started by nunojcmaia, Oct 8, 2019.

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  1. jimmym

    jimmym Formula 3

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    The stainless used isn’t a big deal, but the shields that Larini uses are. They are using Inconel for their shields. Ken should be able to give you his impression once he gets his. Heat resistance is close to 304 but is a little lower.
     
  2. Culprit

    Culprit Formula Junior
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  3. Oz-ATL

    Oz-ATL Formula Junior
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    Hopefully they’re mine! Still waiting for delivery. 2 more weeks.
     
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  4. evo11

    evo11 Karting

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    thanks, looks good !
     
  5. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    I dont think larinis come with shields - they come inconel coated I thought.
     
  6. evo11

    evo11 Karting

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    they have shield
     
  7. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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  8. jimmym

    jimmym Formula 3

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    The shields look like a fitted suit that takes the form of the tube. It doesn’t have the bulky shield like an oem or Tubi have.
     
  9. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Here are a set of F430 Tubi Inconel headers. I’m going to assume Inconel piping and Inconel shielding. No one has received Tubi 355 Inconel headers.

    The standard Tubi headers are 304 SS with an aluminum shield. From my experience, an aluminum shield transfers heat fairly quickly. I would assume their 304 version has some sort of insulation between the header and aluminum shield, whereas their Inconel version doesn’t need it.


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  10. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Because the Tubis are more OE like, hence widely accepted, it is the better choice for most people. Especially, if you are needing an OE look restoration. They will last longer than OE while performing better. That’s enough for most.


    I’d rank Tubi Inconel headers #1 simply because piping and shielding are inconel. Expect to pay $6k.

    I’d rank Larinis #2, but this is pure speculation for now. Designed for modest power gains + bespoke Inconel shielding that is designed to trap most of the heat within the manifold thus increasing velocity for more power potential.

    I’m expecting their Inconel shielding design to be more bespoke for a tighter wrap around, whereas Tubi’s is stamped out. Both are great. I just think one is a bit more effective than the other. However, I would say most would prefer the look of the Tubi.

    #3. 304 SS Tubi headers w/aluminum shields.


    Keep in mind, this is just my personal opinion. I haven’t even seen Larini’s final product. But I’m willing to give it a shot hoping it will turn out as expected. Afterall, I paid slightly more for the Larini headers than I would’ve going with 304 Tubis. I’m chasing power and optimum heat management. My car is a resto-mod, not a restoration. For restoration, go with the Tubis.
     
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  11. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Is there any real evidence that Tubis will last longer? I have 30k + miles on my car and the OE headers are fine. I smoke test them every spring. Additionally every car I looked at when I was buying mine, about a dozen, had OE headers regardless of miles except for 1. That car was obviously abused. Additionally, when Bradan was posting a lot of service threads, most cars seemed to have OE headers. I'm not saying OEs don't fail, I just wonder how wide spread failures are. Are they more common of cars that are driven hard, thus more heat in the exhaust? Is there any correlation regarding failure, cause and effect? There are a lot of cars 20 to 25 years old with various amounts of miles on them still with OE headers. Any 25 yr old Tubis around? And I do know that some have experienced Tubi failures.

    Some of this reminds me of the electrical problems that "all these cars have" which can only be corrected by replacing the connectors. I just question how much is real and how much is "they all fail" so before they do, while I'm in there change them.
     
  13. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Standard Tubi is aluminum shield? I would bet it's some form of stainless/inconel standard. I've never seen a similar heat shield material made from aluminum and even old photos show no signs of corrosion.

    To me those 430 headers don't even look like inconel. Usually companies that work with such an expensive material don't end up with such tight bend radius and die marks but if done in house I suppose anything is possible.

    Really, if you move away from what I would guess is the original 400 series "stainless" into anything 304/316+ and improve the flow or remove factory catalyst, you're probably good for several decades.

    321 is even overkill. Inconel is overkill plus, if done correctly.
     
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  14. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    One thing to consider is, if you don't shift higher than 6k you're putting a lot less heat in them than someone that brings it through peak power.
     
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  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    That's my point James. If your not taking the car to red line on ever shift there a lot less heat load. And if you drive primarily on the street and use all the gears, you are going to be running in the 2 to 3k RPM, maybe 4k range in 6th most of the time if you are anywhere near the speed limits. I generally shift out of 1st and 2nd around 6000 rpm. If I run 3rd to 6k, I've got no need for 4th or 5th most of the time. I tour so a lot of time is in that 2 to 3k range. And contrary to popular belief, my plugs (11k miles on them) haven't carbon fouled nor have I experienced any other problems from "taking it easy". The longer I own my car the more I feel there are a lot of myths around about them.
     
  16. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    I agree. Have read more times than I can count that 2.7's foul plugs regularly. I've not pulled one in the 4 years I've owned mine.

    I'm on original headers with no problems thus far as well but I do think tubi's or other headers made out of a better material than 400 series stainless would have more longevity.
     
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  17. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Image Unavailable, Please Login I did ask Larini if they were willing to build the headers out of 321 SS just out of curiosity. The answer they gave me was good enough to make me comfortable with the 316 SS/Inconel shield combo.

    @JohnK My car has 29k miles and I suspect the headers are failing. I won’t know until I pull them out. I had contemplated just getting them repaired after they were pulled out during an engine out. Personally, I didn’t see much reason going with the Tubis other than the convenience of having something ready during an engine out and avoiding the shop asking, “so when are the headers going to be done?” ... and looking damn pretty. Otherwise, I would’ve bought them long ago. If at the time, my fabricator tells me he’s busy and can’t repair them within 2 weeks, then I would bite the bullet and order Tubis and be done with it. A shop will have your car on a lift for only so long.


    There have been a few Scud headers that have failed and those headers do not have cats in them like the standard 360/F430’s do. And this is the new stuff from ANSA.

    I plan on spending some time and $$ restoring the engine bay components when the time comes. The last thing I want is the heat beating up on everything, so that is important to me as well as durability.
     
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  18. Culprit

    Culprit Formula Junior
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  19. jimmym

    jimmym Formula 3

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    I have never fouled any plugs either.:)

    I upgraded my headers for piece of mind. My oem headers were fine. I was concerned that if the oem headers started going bad but weren’t showing any symptoms, I didn’t want to incur any engine damage. For what they cost me, I feel like it was money well spent.
     
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  20. jimmym

    jimmym Formula 3

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    Turbosource put shields on F355Bob’s custom headers, if I remember correctly.

    The price of what Tubi’s and Larini’s are now is a bargain compared to what the Tubi’s used to cost.
     
  21. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Regarding Tubi aluminum shells, I just assumed they were from a response from Larini. I never asked Tubi what they were.


    “Tubi make very good headers. But ours are truly hand made, bespoke. Hand formed Inconel shielding, not aluminium shells. Hence will cost more, so will never be the most obvious/common option.” -Larini
     
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  22. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    One more thing if it helps. Larini’s warranty is same as Tubi’s. 3 years.

    Larini did a good job in telling me what I wanted to hear lol. It sounds almost exactly the header I’ve been looking for. And trust me when I say I’ve looked everywhere. When it comes to exhaust components for the 355 and Scud, I could put together a catalogue from every manufacturer in the world by heart. I consider it part of the hobby.
     
  23. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    jimmym, you have the best headers built for an F355 for sure!

    Interesting the response from Larini as to properly fab the headers from 321 or inconel are essentially the same. Achieve perfect fitment and backpurge/weld correctly.

    If you're building them right from 304 16 gauge and move to 18 or 20 gauge 321 or inconel you pull down the amps a few percent and continue on as usual.
     
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  24. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    I've not had the Tubi's in hand but based on photos I would bet it's nearly the same material. No way that is aluminum.
     
  25. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    And we value your enthusiasm and wisdom!
     
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