Harris and the SF90

That makes much more sense than my assumption thanks for the clarification.

 

That is so funny to read. "behave more like a Ferrari should". Unfortunately the non-AF car he drove and reviewed is like the customer cars we will get, i.e loads of understeer. Business as usual. Oh well, it can be fixed

 

What will be interesting to discover is how Ferrari tuned each mode. It would be interesting if the amount and way the front end responds varies with each mode. There is so much more to learn about this car.

 

Can’t wait for shmee’s review, said literally by no one ever.

 

The corresponding Pirelli would be the Trofeo, not the Corsa, and as you said there have been 7 years of development since then.

Yes, there is this rumour, but we can't really know for sure.


PS: Regarding what CH said about the second car, I believe he was merely referring to suspension alignment.

 

You cannot go by that correspondence. The LaF tyre is unique in the PZero Corsa line. It is a very sticky tyre and I know from an owner whom occasionally tracks his LaF and tried regular Cup 2's and they were far off in terms of bite.

As for the driver, no we can't be sure. But here are two things I would like to point out. 1. You were the one who stated that is was two different drivers, not assumed.
2. If we should assume anything, I think it is safe to say that Ferrari more than likely brought out the big guns to make sure the cars ran as good as possible. There's a goid chance that it is Simone piloting both cars.

As for that CH comment. Yes of course. That is also why I say it can be rectified. All customer Ferraris come set up for understeer, being it a Porto, LaF or SF90. So, he got to review an actual customer type non-AF car, and a properly set up car with neutral handling that was set up for the lap. It will more than likely not be a big deal to fix, hasn't been yet anyway.

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You know, while he has a voice that shatters glass and is in need to a serious flossing, he actually manages to review from a fairly enthusiastic perspective. I'm not a huge fan, but he drives and track his cars, so I'm more likely to take his word on face value, than some of the more established jurnos out there, who seem like they are just making things up as they go along.
I will be interested in what he has to say, I will just need to steel my ears and avoid looking at his teeth...

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people hate Shmee simply for his success, he's a car nerd who's friendly and respectful to everyone.

his overly positive style isn't to my taste but if you're going to hate things then there's plenty of better things in life to hate.

 

I heard it as more of a chassis setup thing. This would also make a bit more sense to me. I will be trying to find out if AF and Non-AF cars are using the same software. Will probably have an answer on that later. Tonight.

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I enjoy Shmee’s reviews, but I go in understanding he is not a professional reviewer, he is an enthusiast driver who loves cars. I especially enjoy how he tries to bring you the experience of driving the car (as with Monza) and he tries to show you all the little details.

I may have been slow to realize this, but, it just now occurs to me, the additional brilliance of “the Stig”- it allows the manufacturers to send along whomever they want as the driver and they put on the uniform.

Either way, I rewatched the lap time video and I think Harris said it well, it almost looks like a video on fast forward. And re-watching Harris’ comments, I think he was fair, he tried to separate the objective and subjective. Surely he’s allow his preferences. My take is the world keeps spinning and change is the only constant. (Editorial- we can use a change from 2020!)


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SF 90 exists only because European CO 2 and noise standards required it.
It s an inconvenient truth , but it s the thuth !
Consequently, it s not a progress for an enthusiast. Don t confuse everything.
A NA V8 11 000 rpm will be a progress, without the...of bureaucrates, but not this thing.

 

So you don’t think it’s slow anymore and no way in hell faster than a LaF?

 

Absolutly, SF 90 is slower than an LF ! easy for the marketers to announce this, LF no longer concern them, they have been sold for a long time...
This is just a marketing argument, exactly like the weight measurement... simply a joke !

 

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Surely NA V8 11k would be amazing- or how about 12k NA V12! But isn't it always the case they have to find a way to deliver the dream while being in compliance with the rules and regulations? The market is wanting more spaceship looks and more power.. Isn't it really more than just the regulators but a response to a changing market? I remember when people said they wouldn't buy Ferrari cars anymore because they got rid of stick shift. They now sell more now than ever.

 

Sorry if what I say now is a bit blunt, but that is grumpy old man style nonsense. Every sportscar developed since the 60's have been developed around some kind of regulation. Cats, emission, safety, noise and all the rest of it. Bumpers, shapes, impact zones etc. Progress in the automotive world has been dictated by laws and regulations for decades, and one kind of development is not inferior to anther, just different. Is the F12 aerodynamics inferior to the 550 despite the fact that the bonnet cannot sit 10mm above the engine? No. Development now is targeted differently than making an 11k revving V8, making a good hybrid system is just another challenge, which does not have to mean an inferior result.

When you say that the faster lap on the TG board is marketing, please explain this to me. When the LaF was tested, Ferrari had one goal, which was to go on top of that board and beat the P1 and 918. Do you really think they held back and thought, "we must make sure that the hybrid 5 years down the line is faster"? I'm quite sure they did not. They set that 1:14 time and it was the fastest it could run and they were more than likely pretty happy with that time. Now a lot of time has passed, and something faster and newer has come along. It is no different than when the 458 knocked the Enzo off the top spot. That's just progress and it is great from an enthusiasts perspective. We can all sit and dream of what once were, but that is just romance. I love driving a 250, and giving each spinner a wack with the trusty lead slugger before an outing is part of the charm, but then getting in behind the wheel of a Lusso makes me equally happy about the fact that we now are where we are. The 250GTE must have been an amazing experience in 1961, but now it is more a fun romance and a chance to take a trip down memory lane. Older and simpler is not always better, it is just different.

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No problem, just 40 years old !

So many things to say, but not in a public forum.

 

Then we are the same age. It was not an attempt of calling you a grumpy old man, to me the whole "not like it used to be" just reminds me of grumpy old guys talking about how the world is going to hell and "back in our youth" yadda yadda yadda

That's a shame, would be interesting to know.

 

When was this not the case? Cars have added weight, power, crash safety, pedestrian safety, interiors designed with airbags everywhere and interior projections managed. If you think this regulation-driving-weight is a new thing, you’re very wrong. Even emissions reductions have been with us for years. The SF90 is simply modern, in the same way that fuel injection, ABS, airbags, pedestrian safety, DCT, unleaded fuel, catalytic converters, adjustable dampers, electronic stability control, traction control, power steering, electronic steering, drive by wire, twin turbochargers and on and on...were once modern. It is just so old hat and, frankly, boring, to be complaining about the good old days having gone. That’s life. Get over it, It’s not coming back. Be glad of the old, celebrate the new. I’m feeling pretty thankful Ferrari can still overcome increasing restrictions and deliver a car that might just be a masterpiece, despite the restrictions. Just like so many of its predecessors.

Edit, posted before reading Il CoPilota’s very similar response - not trying to copy his work!

 

No worries, didn't read is as an attempt of copying me

 

Whatever cars Ferrari launch people are going to complain for one reason or another and as things stand there’s not much better criticism than saying the cars are too fast and too modern. I think they’re nailing it of late! Only ones who matter to them are potential owners who most likely already have had many Ferraris and only want something better and new.
You want a light 11000 revving V8 car? Get a crappy Ariel Atom

 

??? Seriously? How do you get ‘koolaid’ from that post? He wasn’t saying ‘Ferrari is better than x for reasons I can’t fully articulate’. I deal with many car manufacturers at the highest level as part of the work of my company. I can tell you that in terms of product development Ferrari have been operating at such a high level for years now. If anyone wants to say they are brilliant it just isn’t wrong. Doesn’t mean that Porsche or McLaren haven’t been doing the same, they have both launched some top-drawer products in the last 5 years. But the SF90, Ferrari’s first true plug-in hybrid, with 1,000hp, with complex drivetrain, with awd, with a new 8-speed DCT, with now very good press reviews, at less than half the price of a LaF. Come on, you don’t have to love it, but you do have to acknowledge the engineers (who can only respond to the regulations, not decide them) did an amazing job here. I bet they didn’t drink a single koolaid in the making of this car either.

 

What do you mean by that? I think if you read my posts I'm not too shy about calling Ferrari out on their shortcomings.

Fact is just that we have not driven the car yet, so it is difficult at best to say how it will feel.

If the car is crap I will say so and it will be for sale right away. I am a Ferrari enthusiast, but that does not mean they are immune to errors or that I don't care. I can rant on about ****ty paint jobs, poor brakes, too much understeer, overpriced bad semi aniline leather, silly driving dynamics that artificially increases the "experience" and all the rest of it. If the SF90 turns out to be 1950 kg I will post it far and wide, and the same goes if it feels heavy.
But right now we are just waiting. I'm excited about the prospect of a new car, and it pisses me off to read some of the negative crap coming from people whom have not driven it and who haven't even got one on order.

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