Replacing coolant hose to heater w/o removing dash? | FerrariChat

Replacing coolant hose to heater w/o removing dash?

Discussion in '308/328' started by rjd2, Sep 23, 2020.

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  1. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    Hi all-while I have the front suspension apart, I am replacing the 40 yr old connecting hoses in the cooling system. The 5/8" -ish coolant hose that runs to the heater under the dash looks very difficult to reach without removing the dash(which I DID find in the search function, and appears to be a horrible job). I couldn't find any record of this discussed in the archives. Is there a way to access the connection under the dash without removing the dash itself? Thanks for any tips.
     
  2. jmaienza

    jmaienza Formula Junior
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    Jan 8, 2009
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    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Joe
  3. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    Thanks! Looks miserable, but honestly, anything looks better than taking the windshield and dash out...
     
  4. jmaienza

    jmaienza Formula Junior
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    Jan 8, 2009
    608
    Massachusetts
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    Joe
    Working the new hoses into position while using the old ones as a pathway is like untying a complex knot. Take your time and note the position of each hose. There is lots of over and under manipulating to get the new hoses into position.

    Basically, once you do the job you’re
    good for another 40 years!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  5. Glenn308QVturbo

    Sep 20, 2017
    34
    Full Name:
    Glenn Orell
    If I understand your post correctly your just wanting to change the 5/8" return line? If your going to the trouble I would at least change out all the hoses under the dash since your going to have to undo most of them anyway. As for the line coming from the engine it requires pulling the drivers side fuel tank and to say the least it is quite a job.

    Before starting take a ton of pictures for reference from every angle possible. Start by removing the water valves and the heater cores. My a/c wasn't charged so I was able to remove the dryer for access to the RH heater core. I then removed part of the duct work and this gave me access to the 5/8" line in question. While the heater cores where out I cleaned the ducts and flushed out the fins on the cores as they were full of leaves and dirt. There's an access panel in the LH front wheel well that may help with access to that line.

    I decided to do mine because my LH fuel tank started leaking and I had to pull it anyway. I changed out my vacuum booster line as well. If you do decide to pull the tank it will require you to disassemble the left rear suspension to get the tank out. The line runs behind the tank and into the rocker panel. There's another access panel behind the drivers seat you'll have to remove to pull the lines through. It requires pulling the carpet back and drilling out a few pop rivets.

    As for the pulling the windshield and dash it did not occur to me to even go that way. I honestly don't think it would help.
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  6. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    16,057
    Gold Coast, Aust.
    Full Name:
    Patrick
    No, no, no! It's nothing to do with the dash! It's all under the bonnet. Remove the fibreglass cover at the back of the spare wheel well, and you'll access everything. I re-routed my hoses so that they all come to the front - it's a bit tight behind the brake booster...
     
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  7. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2014
    1,109
    Mansfield, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron
    I did this job a few years ago. I posted a few pictures. It was a pain. I used white stripe hoses. The green strip was too thick. My hoses weren't bad, just old. I don't like 30+ year old rubber carrying vital fluids.
     
  8. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 28, 2005
    4,119
    Calgary, AB, Canada
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    Gordon
    Try this thread: Can this heater hose be replaced w/o disassembly?

    Post #8, I posted a bunch of photos and description showing how I replaced all the underhood heater hoses on my 1984 QV without disassembling anything beyond the heater hose valve mounting.
     
  9. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2013
    1,455
    Tulsa, OK
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    John McDermott
    Keep a box of bandaids close by. Seems everything in that area is sharp!


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  10. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,527
    California SF bay area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    FWIW - I’ve never owned a car in which replacing the heater core hoses wasn’t a nightmare. Secondly, although it is a 40 year old hose it does live in a relatively benign controlled environment. Why not defer replacement until necessary. A leaking heater hose can be either isolated with the shut off or, at worst, disabled with a clamp.

    That being said if you just want to do it because you want to I can completely understand that as well.
     
  11. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    Thanks, all. Yes, I know it's a relatively "low risk" location for coolant. As you all may well know, it's more mental than anything-once you commit to having the car roadworthy for another 40 years, leaving anything that can deteriorate feels like a cut corner. This car is being completely mechanically rebuilt-suspension, brakes, trans, motor, carbs, cooling, interior has all been disassembled/blasted/etc. It won't fire til spring, surely, and this will be my primary project, but by hook or by crook, it's going to be done right the first time.

    Started on the hoses. Not fun. Getting the heater boxes out of the fenders enough to access the rear nipples is my first drag....
     
  12. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Aug 28, 2005
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    What year is your 308? There is likely no need to remove the heater boxes. Please see the thread I linked in post #8.
     
  13. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    1978. i don't think i need to fully remove them, but to access the outer nipple to install the new hose, i'll need to get at least kinda close. i THINK i've got the boxes out enough, just a few inches, will hopefully do.
     
  14. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    SUCCESS!! That thread GordonC linked to was very helpful. I got all of the hoses that connect to both the heater valve, and heater boxes, replaced this morning. One minor tip to pass on to the next person to attempt this: I drilled holes thru the ends of the 1/2" hoses(both old and new) and zip tied them together; this way I didnt have to worry about losing an end in an inaccessible location. Also, I started with a single 10' run of both 1/2" and 5/8" hose. For the tee that lives under the dash, I connected each end to the heater box hoses, creating a continuous loop. Once I pulled the tee out of the center area(towards the 5/8" hose), and sorted the new 1/2" hoses thru, I replaced the tee and pushed in back inwards thru the center channel. This pushed the 1/2" hoses back to exactly where they should be, and by sliding the heater boxes out by about 3", it allowed me to cut the 1/2" hoses precisely to the heater nipples. that 10' run of 1/2" hose left enough hose to replace those, as well as the 2 lengths that run to the valve.

    There's one hose that I havent figured out where it terminates, and thus, still want to replace: the 5/8" hose that exits the opposite side of the heater valve, which I have to assume is the return circuit to the engine bay. This recedes into the dash area; I can't deduce on the cooling diagram where it lives. Any insights in that one? It doesnt appear to return thru the center recess where the two metal pipes live... if I can get that one done, I can sleep easy knowing all cooling rubber is brand new!
     
  15. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2013
    1,455
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    John McDermott
    On a GT4 it drops vertically and joins the main aluminum coolant pipe running in the central tunnel underneath the car to the radiator.


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  16. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    Thanks-on the GTS, the Y at the undercarriage front area connects to the tee in the dash area. I found a description in the archives of where the "engine bay side" of the 5/8" hose at the heater valve terminates-it looks to travel thru the drivers side door sill area to the engine bay. Luckily, since my tanks and engine are out, I think I'll have a straight shot at it...

    one person put a valve on this hose at the engine bay, in case it blew. Think it's worth putting a pair of valves on this hose at it's termination points?
     
  17. Eric_Martinez

    Eric_Martinez Rookie

    Jul 5, 2017
    24
    If the line breaks there is no coolant. If you shut the valve there is no coolant. Either way the car isn’t drivable. The only thing useful I can think of is to hold half the coolant while working on the other half of the car. Honestly didn’t see an upside big enough to install valves


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  18. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    Thanks Eric-to be clear, valves at the 5/8" heater return line would shut coolant circulation to the heating circuit, in the event of a break in that line. the 2" lines that serve the block itself would still circulate coolant. But you are right, in that it's only a partial a contingency. I've never done or seen it on another car, but it was mentioned by a previous owner, so I figured I'd entertain it, in case there's something I'm not aware of around this routing.

    I bet the long run 5/8" line is a drag when the car is assembled, but when it's blown apart, it was pretty straight forward. I had to drill out rivets in the drivers side sill panel, but after that, it's a pretty clean shot.
     
  19. bill brooks

    bill brooks F1 Veteran
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    Jul 30, 2007
    5,193
    waynesburg,pa
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    bill brooks
    i still have not learned how to navigate this "new" f'chat archieve. for access to days gone by.

    however, when i did my heater hose change over 8yrs. ago , i took extensive pix along with explanation. alas, i can't retrieve them.

    essentially, i brought all heater hoses out from under the cowl by cutting them. once i had all relevant hoses out front,
    i renewed them with new gates hose and laid the new assemblies up behind the spare tire and very accessible for
    future maintenance. why the factory never considered this is beyond me.

    i believe ettore, @ seattle m5, was doing his hoses at the same time as me. perhaps he can find his pix and share.
    being a surgeon, he probably has instant recall.

    perhaps, this being an oft quoted and critical topic to maintenance of our vehicles, the photos could be assembled into
    a "sticky" which used to be popular here. if my brain would intercede, i could help with many of the critical shots of hoses
    and their placement.
     
  20. bill brooks

    bill brooks F1 Veteran
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    Jul 30, 2007
    5,193
    waynesburg,pa
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    bill brooks
    rjd2,
    i found the post regarding the hose replacement you're working on. if still needed, post here. i'll put it up on the chat.

    the same applies to anyone else not acquainted with this pm.

    not trying to toot my whistle, but the pix might be helpful.

    i'm a firm believer in sharing whatever can be of help to fellow f'chatters.
     
  21. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
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    Mar 28, 2012
    1,753
    Shreveport, LA
    Bill, please put it up,

    Lester
     
  22. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    so the long 5/8" run to the engine bay can be pulled in one shot, but it's critical to remove both the panel at the wheel well, and the panel behind the seat. again, the zip tie method worked great for me-connect new and old hoses using a zip tie via drilled holes on both hoses. i would strongly recommend the "old hose as cart, new hose as horse" technique for all of them. I do not think i could have sorted the cowl area smaller runs of hose without it, or if so, it would have been much worse...
     
  23. jmaienza

    jmaienza Formula Junior
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    Jan 8, 2009
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    Joe
    Saabguy likes this.
  24. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 28, 2005
    4,119
    Calgary, AB, Canada
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    Gordon
    Congrats, the rocker panel hoses are the worst DIY jobs on the entire car. Re the panel behind the seat, I didn't remove that and was able to replace both hoses - the brake vacuum hose is the other one that goes through there... and it's very much a case of "while you're in there" with the fuel tank pulled back, front and rear fender liners out, etc, you're halfway there with all the prep work done!
     
  25. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    Thanks Gordon! Dunno if this hits for anyone, but the sense of satisfaction when that hose finally is pulling freely was a big rush....

    While I was expecting to get my car back in one piece, and fully done, I have hit a stride on this restoration, and am really enjoying myself. Now that I'm done disassembling, it's getting fun!!!! Blew apart the steering rack and sway bars, and all associated fittings, this week. Kit is en route for rack(panteraparts.com has the Cam Gears LTD kits in stock FYI), and all bushings are ordered. Got all my suspension and exhaust parts back from soda blasting. Unobtainium.com parts showed up last night. Probably need to buckle down and take some photos, I'm thinking....
     

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