C8 CORVETTE

Mine was built 2 days after the Valve Spring date! I wouldn't be surprised if they hold cars for a while before delivering them to customers.

 

Ive had my car for over 6 months, March delivery, and knock on wood, no problems and about 2600 miles.

 

Oh no.... another safety recall. That makes 3 this week. All three from subcontractors.

Valve Springs
Brake Modules
and now Driver side seat belts...

https://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/c8-corvette-news/gm-issues-2020-corvette-safety-recall-for-defective-driver-seat-belt-during-crash/

 

They have only been making seat belts for like 50+ years now! Poor quality control is not a good excuse.

 

So you have to wonder if GM put pressure on their subcontractors to get back to work after Covid. But it does not excuse GM quality control for not spotting the issues when the parts come in or having spot inspectors in the vendor's factory.

 

There is a general quality loss across all industries with zero customer service anywhere. This is effecting overall quality everywhere so GM is not alone. I stopped buying anything important, except essential, that was not 100% made by a machine. I won't take this thread P&R but we all know why this is happening.

 

Was at The Glenn this past week and there were two C8s there a base and a loaded car, sadly neither ran on track but got a good detailed look.
Its a fast lux Gt in current iteration if cadillac made a lux sportscar the C8 is it, and that's good thing,
Build quality is vastly improved. Closing the door, it feels German, shutlines actualy something to write home about..

On the base model, the interior truly was acres of hard plastic, as in vettes of old, the leather package car, almost overdone, think lexus LC500, truly luxury.

To me the most impressive functional part of the interior, something photographs do not convery. When youre sitting behind the wheel, all the instruments and screen fall below the road line of sight, its excellent as the guages are there to provide auxiliary info when you look down at them but are otherwise out of the line of view(as with a single seater race car). I can see why a hud can make sense here. The wrap around cockpit its driver centric and gives the impression of shrinking the car around you, plus it looks "exotic" something so many interiors lack. The feeling in the cockpit is far more intimate and for that matter exotic feeling than any prior vette. It truly feels like and exotic and looking forwards the car feels to be small, the big rear is of course behind you so its blocked from vision.

Styling wise the car may be a pastiche of ferrari and lambo type cues, but its really well done. If anythinn this is not an american ferrari, its a practical lamborghini.
The gaps between the tops of the tires and fender are truly vast, is this some GM edict. Clearly the car can be lowered a lot and still have exellent clearance/stance between tire and fender. As a lix Gt as it is now this works, good ground clearance etc, but you cans ee how it can be vastly improved for hi po versions where ground clearance for running errands less of an issue.

They had to comprmise for their base customer to have a comfyish car that can do supermarkets, they seem to have baked in a lot of good stuff for future versions.

The rear of the car is big. The hatch is huge and while its addign wight and golf bad ease it cannot be adding to nay structiral integrity. The very rear it is chevy generic but there is a lot more small detail so it pulls it off, once again an american lambo. The creases on the side, kinda stealth fighter and breaks up the mass, maybe not art but it works.

We forgive ferrari and lambo a lot cause they're exotics, we can forgive the vette some things too, probably less to forgive than the italians. Yeah the bumpers have the plasticky look and yeah soem of the exterior detail not schmatzy Cf, but thats really ersatz cosmetic and youre not paying 300k. The C8 has the look and feel of an exoitic, its maybe the first practical exotic(except orig nsx) .

On my wish list. For a z06 loose the rear trunk and loose rear mass. Lower it and flare it out like the C8R and dont be afraid to do vented fenders like the R or a 911 Gt3. A z06 is your track statement, hone if for that, golf club trunk practicality is not necessary or on the requierment list for a buyer of this car. Loose as much weight as possible and focus the car, you have other versions for other functions.

The zr1 and Zora can be the "faster" cars that carry golf cliubs, let the z06 breathe in its natural track enviroment.

Would I buy a C8 z06 for 120k over a 160k Gt3, maybe, porobably, a drive would tell. I would more than likely buy one over a 200k Gt3 Rs, unless the z06 still handles and brakes weird at the limit(like the z51 we read)and is too heavy.

 

I agree its an American Lambo more than an American Ferrari. Its more of an attack on Porsche, Jaguar, Mercedes and Audi and if they cared, Maserati and Aston Martin.

Its not a sports car IMO. Its a luxury sports GT. I completely agree its too big in the back (and in general overall) but they needed a place to put more storage and the targa roof. Chevy knows its customers really well for this car. They would not accept for a DD a car with only the front space and no place to put the top. They could have made the coupe not have a targa but again, they know their customers like them and expect them.

And the styling at the rear is close to awful. But the front and 3/4 views are pretty good. Its not an ugly car and even though there's a good chunk of Lambo in it, it does come across as being a Corvette.

The interior to me is a bit oddballish but it is functional. It does not have that Ferrari elegance. But in fact I would say its 1000% more functional because of the use of the large touch screen, simple button inputs, and better electronics with Apple Carplay standard. An actual wireless charging port. OnStar. PDR built in. And a heads up display. And GM innovations like the back up and other cameras as standard make paying $3500 for just ONE camera on a Ferrari seem like highway robbery. Oh, and full function electric seats standard vs being a $3800 option in a Ferrari . The horror!

And it has what Americans really want -- great 0-60 times but rather anemic 100 to 180 times compared to its Euro rivals.

In short it is what it is. A mass produced product from one of the largest car makers in the world designed and priced for the mass market. Don't read too much more into it than that.

 

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American Lamborghini


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

The funny thing is, the overall length of the C8 is 182.3 inches versus the Ferrari 458 Italia which is 178.20 inches so there is only a 4.1 inch difference and the 458 was the car the C8 was based on initially as GM purchased one and tore it down to study it for the C8 design.
So GM designed a car based initially using the 458 and made room for a Targa top/extra storage space that Ferrari somehow could not using only 4 extra inches of length........
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Dimensions are deceiving. Its the proportions of a car that matter.

 

Someone on the vette forum posted this. Interesting.




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C2's will always rock!

 

Cool comparison, but? Should do the same photos with the same person in each car.

In the Lambo? They are IN/part of the car. In the Vette? They are sitting on a couch, with the car under them.

 

I get what your saying but, the basic size of the cars are extremely close for all of this talk I see of the Corvette is too big or too wide etc.
That is just biased talk when you look at the hard facts of the numbers.

C8 XTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Overall Length: 182.3 inches
Overall Width: 76.1 inches
Overall Height: 48.6 inches

458 Italia XTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Overall Length: 178.2 inches
Overall Width: 76.3 inches
Overall Height: 47.8 inches

Net differences:
Overall Length: 4.1 inches (Corvette tiny bit longer)
Overall Width: 0.2 inches (458 Italia tiny bit wider)
Overall Height: 0.8 inches (Corvette tiny bit taller)

The C8 Corvette is essentially the same size as a 458 Italia with better storage.

 

But the C8 looks bigger, and part of it is that tail.

 

While I agree with your position, keep in mind 4" in length is no small matter with a vehicle architecture.

 

Only 38 Corvettes Affected in Brake Sensor Contamination Recall
https://www.corvetteblogger.com/2020/09/28/only-38-corvettes-affected-in-brake-sensor-contamination-recall/

 

I posted this in the Car Design Thread, but thought I'd repost it here.
C8 vs Mangusta comparison
https://velocetoday.com/de-tomaso-mangusta-vs-corvette-c8/#more-123059

De Tomaso Mangusta vs Corvette C8

September 29, 2020 By pete 6 Comments



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A half century separates the 1969 De Tomaso Mangusta and the 2020 Chevrolet C8 Corvette.



By Dick Ruzzin

What drives a company like De Tomaso or Chevrolet to demonstrate its soul by creating cars that will hopefully outperform those of its peers? To put its image on the line and be confident that it will win? To challenge what is considered the best in all the world and not be afraid?

This is really a story of two companies, one very small and one very big. Fifty years separate the two landmark mid-engine efforts, the Mangusta and the C8 Corvette. For Alessandro de Tomaso, it was very personal, as he wrote in the Mangusta Owners Manual. Fortunately, in the history and heritage of General Motors and Chevrolet, there remains a spark called Corvette, which still displays the very essence of what an automobile is about.

Herein, we examine both cars from an owner’s perspective.

Over fifty years ago, through a series of unusual circumstances, I became the owner of the only De Tomaso Mangusta (of 401) built at the factory with a 375HP Corvette engine, not a 215HP Ford like most of the others. I still own that car, 8MA670, and have lived with it, worked on it, driven it, showed it and protected it all of that time. I now consider it a treasure.

When I first brought the Mangusta home, I was in disbelief that I actually owned it. It took months for me to get used to driving it and seeing it in my garage. I was nervous about it. It was considered the most beautiful car design on the planet at the time and it influenced every car design and car designer in the world. The fact that it was mid-engined was simply not as important as the way it looked.

In early 2019 I was hearing rumors that a new mid-engine Corvette was really supposed to be produced – “This time.” In 2014, I had bought a C7 convertible that was originally supposed to have mid- engine architecture. GM’s bankruptcy reduced their budget so the Corvette team had to fall back on rear wheel drive. The result was a fantastic rear drive car. I would have been happy to keep mine forever as it was wonderful. I then decided that if Chevrolet built a mid-engine car that it must be truly exceptional and that I had to own one.

I had no idea how inadequate the word ‘exceptional’ would be in describing the new C8 Corvette. I ordered one in November of 2019 and number 01742 arrived in my driveway on my birthday during the second week of June in 2020. Later that night, looking at it in my garage I was intimidated, just as I had been when I brought the Mangusta home over fifty years earlier.
Both cars embody the values of the countries where they were created, the Mangusta is 1969 Italian, and the Corvette is 2020 American. The Mangusta is about the past and the Corvette is about the future.

This is my story of owning both cars at the same time and comparing them for you. Who would have ever thought that I would have been so lucky?

DE TOMASO AUTOMOBILI



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From Italy, the De Tomaso Mangusta, a design icon. Clear, harmonic and emotional design, when once seen, remembered forever.



The De Tomaso story is well known to the VeloceToday.com readership. Alessandro de Tomaso was not an engineer; he was a mechanic who became a race car driver and then quickly moved to race car builder. He was known to be an innovator, one who moved on quickly to “new things”. He had an amazing career of great accomplishment, eventually owning several Italian car and motorcycle companies. His first car built in series was the low volume Vallelunga. It was small and mid-engine like his racecars. Then, utilizing the Ford V8 engine, the Mangusta was introduced in 1966. The deal with Ford for the engines led quickly to the Ford Pantera.

THE FIRST CHEVROLET CORVETTE

In Italy shortly after Ferrari started producing road cars and before Lamborghini emerged a Corvette heritage was evolving within General Motors and Chevrolet in the United States. If you closely examine the new C8 Corvette Stingray emblem you will see a small Chevrolet Bowtie. That bowtie, in the emblem from the Corvette’s beginning, it was created by William C. Durant in 1913, a co-founder of the Chevrolet Motorcar Company. His partner, Louis Chevrolet, was a race car driver who also aspired to manufacturing his own cars. His great competitive racing spirit still lives on at Chevrolet and continues to influence its future.

Conceived by GM’s first car designer Harley Earl, the Corvette was embraced by Chevrolet after World War Two as a British import fighter . It started in 1953 with the straight six cylinder, but the soon-to-be iconic Chevrolet Small Block V8 engine as designed by Ed Cole was in the wings, and when Zora Arkus Duntov invited himself to be part of the C2 Team, the V8 became a reality. Duntov’s high speed runs at Daytona Beach shocked the emerging sports car world in America as the new Corvette exceeded 150MPH, performance far beyond the twice the price Jaguar XK140s and inspiring the XKE. Like Earl, Duntov was a racer, even racing at le Mans after starting at General Motors, and as time went on, he steadily advanced the Corvette’s dynamic performance. It soon was recognized deservedly as America’s only true sports car.



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From America, the 2020 Chevrolet C8 Corvette, challenging the best in the world in the showroom and on the race track. The design of the car has received enthusiastic acclaim.



From a business standpoint the Corvette’s early performance was fitful. But from the very beginning many at General Motors had, and still do have, a special feeling for the Corvette. Through good and bad times, it survived true to its heritage of offering outstanding performance at a great price. The C8 still has that ingrained value but that is no longer the reason to buy one. Now it stands completely on its own as a world-class high-performance sports car that takes a back seat to no other brand. Soon it will be sold around the world with both right and left hand drive; the image created by the years of winning Corvette racecars has successfully paved the way, competing and winning against the best the world has to offer.

THE DESIGN LANDSCAPE FOR THE MANGUSTA

The De Tomaso Mangusta as designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro was introduced at the 1966 Turin Automobile Show in Italy. At that time the automotive design world was very settled and evolving in an international aesthetic progression. The car received incredible attention because it was so beautiful with exotic mid-engined proportions. What was not understood was the high level of artistic skill required to execute a design that was so simple. It is clearly a piece of automotive art work done by a master and technically almost equal to the Lamborghini Miura, except for its engine.



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The Mangusta has a midengine racing chassis conceived by Alessandro de Tomaso and Carroll Shelby. Interior and exterior design by Giorgetto Giugiaro and it was conceived as a racecar for the street. Note however, that this particular Mangusta has a small block Chevy engine rather than the standard Ford offering.



The Mangusta was a design leader, an instant icon. No car that has come out since has had so much impact on the way that cars look as there is a very strong line between aesthetic automotive drama and the forces that influence global design cultures.

As I drove my new Mangusta around, people would follow me home, pull over to the side of the road when they saw me coming and when and wherever I stopped there was always some kind of conversation. De Tomaso – “It sounds like a restaurant.” Mangusta- “Strange name, I never heard of it, but it is pretty.” It was red and low and when you opened the rear engine cover there sitting in the engine bay was a 327 Chevrolet Small Block engine. I knew that engine well, I had installed one in my 1952 MGTD when in college. One day in the very near future I would meet Ed Cole, who designed it, and it would be part of my career at General Motors Design for many years. No other engine… No Ferrari, no Maserati, no Porsche or Lamborghini or BMW or Mercedes Benz engine has given more pleasure to more people than the Chevrolet Small Block. Period.

THE DESIGN LANDSCAPE FOR THE C8 CORVETTE

The C8 Corvette Stingray was introduced by Chevrolet sixty years after the first hint of a move to mid-engined architecture. The design world, now global, is moving forward under self-imposed branding rules. The rear wheel drive C7 Corvette introduced six years earlier broke the Corvette design mold and paved the way for the C8. It was instantly embraced, achieving design parity with Ferrari and Lamborghini, the leaders in the mid-engine supercar world. The C8 aesthetic achievement is matched with a GM developed and industry leading aluminum chassis and eight speed transmission.



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The C8 Corvette engine. Evolved from the original Ed Cole Chevrolet Small Block, it now boasts 490 Horsepower and 460 Lbs. of Torque. It has a cast aluminum chassis and an eight speed transmission.



In the very competitive world of global automobile development rarely does a sea change appear. One evolved over a long period of years and was recently confirmed over the last seven or eight at General Motors and Chevrolet. It was a historic decision for the Corvette Team, a small group of passionate designers and engineers who had nurtured what became an outstanding rear wheel drive platform for years, to then switch to mid-engine architecture. It would be their opportunity to create a new production Corvette that would be like no other. The timing was right; General Motors and Chevrolet would take the opportunity to grow the Corvette brand but the new C8 must accomplish a historic task, to win at racing and also be sold in the USA and around the world against all competition. Even though it was seen coming for sixty years, when it finally arrived it was shocking in a number of different ways. General Motors and Chevrolet were going to start playing with the big boys!



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The Mangusta and the Corvette, built fifty years apart with many common functional attributes. Light weight, both cars have leading edge technologies for the times.



COMMON VEHICLE ATTRIBUTES, 1969 MANGUSTA AND THE 2020 CORVETTE

The Mangusta and the C8 Corvette are very similar in many ways but, as expected fifty years after the Mangusta was first sold, science and engineering advances have resulted in very different products. I will try to explain both and also compare what it is like to drive a historic mid-engine car built by De Tomaso to the newly released mid-engine C8 Corvette built by Chevrolet. Both cars feature:

*Mid-engine architecture
*V8 engines
*Longitudinal engine orientation.
*Advanced chassis design with lightweight structures for the times
*Easy entry rockers and a structural center tunnel.
*Both challenge the market with stunning looks.
*Two luggage compartments.
Both mid-engine cars were created with racing instrumentation, electric windows, air conditioning and power brakes as well as unique steering wheels.

The Mangusta weighs in at 2,954 pounds and the C8, fifty years later, with all required safety mandated additives is still only 3,366 pounds. Weight bias for both is about the same, 40 / 60 resulting in excellent traction and zero to sixty times. Astoundingly, they are under 4 1/2 seconds for the Mangusta with the Chevrolet engine and under 3 seconds for the new C8 Corvette. Both are very fast cars.

Opshots, Mangusta

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Buy Dick Ruzzin’s Tribute to the Mangusta. bellamangustadesign.com
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