355 - Headlight weirdness | FerrariChat

355 Headlight weirdness

Discussion in '348/355' started by MrJames, Sep 24, 2020.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. MrJames

    MrJames Karting

    Apr 12, 2020
    62
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    James Webb
    Hey all, I'm quite flummoxed by my left headlight motor's behavior. When I got the car, it was "trying" to operate, and would move a little bit down if I manually put it up. I took it apart, cleaned it up, and bench tested it (once the wiring diagram clued me in to what each of the five wires do), and it seems fine. But it doesn't turn when reinstalled, and my multimeter is getting very strange readings from the car after I removed the cleaned-up motor. When measuring between ground and the wire that tells the motor to operate, I'm getting fluctuating voltage, bouncing rapidly among 0, 7.5, and 68.5! The other four wires all read zero relative to ground. When I switch the position of the headlights, the behavior moves to the other signal wire. (One is green with a black stripe, one is purple.) I've tried swapping the relays and inspecting the fuse, and no matter what, I get good behavior on the right headlight and bad on the left headlight. The 68.5 volt reading has me thinking I somehow fried whatever the "headlight controller" is. (I would never think such a thing existed, but there's relay for it.)

    Anyone seen this before?
     
  2. MrJames

    MrJames Karting

    Apr 12, 2020
    62
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    James Webb
    Oops, I think the weird voltage is user error. I got the same results testing the terminals on the battery of my other car. Which implies that my motor is still malfunctioning for some reason. I'll just slink away now...
     
    taz355 likes this.
  3. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,534
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Not following you. James. You said your motor is bad, but that the problem didn't swap when you swapped headlights.

    Not sure what you mean by controller. There is no controller other than the 3rd relay which affects both headlights (relay D).

    When doing wiring checks, did you allow for the polarity of the diodes (not shown in the wiring diagrams)?
     
  4. MrJames

    MrJames Karting

    Apr 12, 2020
    62
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    James Webb
    What are the diodes for? I mean, I know what diodes do in general, but why are there some inside the goo on this motor?

    I only swapped relays, not headlights or motors. I didn't understand the fusebox legend, and thought there was some kind of separate "controller." It doesn't make sense, but I don't think a third relay truly makes sense either. It seems a small switch could handle enough current to drive two relays in parallel. To add to my confusion, I was using my new meter incorrectly, so I thought I was getting high-voltage transients from a damaged electronic device of some kind. Turns out the meter defaults to AC mode. Suboptimal for my purposes.

    Further examination shows I didn't clean up the disc on the motor's gear well enough. I used 400 grit sandpaper, but there is still corrosion, which doesn't conduct electricity. (I thought it was just discoloration.) Continuity checks confirm major dead spots remain. So I ordered a drill bit with a grinding stone on it. I suspect I will have both headlights operational again late tomorrow night!
     
  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,534
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Hard to explain, but.... the headlight pods reach full up when a dead spot on the gearbox's disk is reached and the only way to get the motor to come down again, is to remove power from relay "D" (i.e.) by turning off the headlights. With the relay relaxed, this activates different "fingers" on the disk, allowing electrical conduction (to the respective headlight motor relay).

    When the pod is between fully up and fully down, I think all the fingers have the potential to conduct. This is why you need the diodes, to stop the current flowing in the wrong finger.

    This system also allows the motors to run in one direction only. No polarity reversal required.

    I believe the diodes are on the green/black and grey wires pointing inwards towards the disk contacts.

    Fig8_Lighting_Diagram_5.2(1997~)_USA
     
  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,534
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Something like this:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    MrJames likes this.
  7. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,965
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Ha ha I did same thing, I like my old analog meter for stuff like that, makes me smarter
     
    MrJames likes this.
  8. MrJames

    MrJames Karting

    Apr 12, 2020
    62
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    James Webb
    Wow, thanks for this - it's much better than the one in the shop manual, which doesn't show the diodes, is not at all clear about what/where the plugs are, and worse, has different colors from the ones on the motor itself. Did you make this one? Or is there a better source than the shop manual?
     
  9. MrJames

    MrJames Karting

    Apr 12, 2020
    62
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    James Webb
    Finally got the motor fixed! The first shot shows part of the switch with several areas rendered nonconductive by corrosion. It had actually been worse, before I sanded it with 400 grit paper. At that point, it had started closing all the way, but not opening. So I took it back apart and spent several minutes grinding it with a stone in my drill, being careful to avoid the plastic bumps (which are surprisingly hard to see in my office light), and finally reaching the state in the second picture. Since this one showed continuity on all spots on the disc, I put it back together, even though it still looks ugly and not shiny. The point is, it works now!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    21,712
    WI
    MrJames likes this.
  11. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,534
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Home made. Most of my diagrams are like this.

    Jeez... I didn't realise they could get so bad.

    Anyway, good to hear you're back in business.
     
    MrJames likes this.
  12. MrJames

    MrJames Karting

    Apr 12, 2020
    62
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    James Webb
    Yeah, I wanted to make sure I didn't overpay for a 355, plus I really love the color scheme on mine (Grigio Titanio with rosso something interior). Because of that, I bought one with a long list of issues. I don't mind this at all, as it builds familiarity with the car, and I'm a fan of sweat equity. As for the magnitude of this particular issue, given the amount of liquid that ran out of this motor when I first disassembled it, it had obviously been operated or stored in the rain quite a lot. I just hope there's not comparable neglect/abuse damage to the engine.
     
  13. MrJames

    MrJames Karting

    Apr 12, 2020
    62
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    James Webb
    I think you were either the author or the inspiration for the pdf I used to tell me how to deal with this issue, so thanks for that!
     
  14. emac

    emac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 14, 2014
    851
    upstate SC
    Full Name:
    ernest
    Welcome James! I think you will find this group an excellent resource for shortening your list of issues. Thanks for posting this, I really enjoy reading about issues....especially the ones that get fixed!
     
    MrJames likes this.

Share This Page