anyone done it? never heard about it, until that amazing blue GTB ended up on BaT recently. does it really work great? I live in TX. I honestly don't drive the 308 much when its hot.... and it gets HOT! I had my AC partially redone in the past. When working.... it makes it... less hot. Not looking for ice cold, but something that actually works. and if you did it... how long did it take you or your mechanic? your thoughts are appreciated
Several have done it with good results, a search for 'Retroair' in this forum section turns up these previous discussions: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/retroair-a-c-upgrade-for-308.412636/ https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/york-compressor.542665/ https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/retroair-wiring.534538/ https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/help-with-a-c-york-to-sanden-conversion.417044/ https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/alternate-universe.524316/ https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/aftermarket-a-c-vs-resale-value.523146/ https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/need-to-improve-interior-comfort.497678/ https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/328-ac-system-r-12-vs-r-134.473621/
I am an amateur home mechanic but have applied myself to learn a/c systems. I have two vintage cars running R12 a/c. Although I recently had the a/c clutch fail on my 308, prior to that, the a/c system was running well. It is bone stock (York compressor, R12 etc) except for one change… I see three problems with the a/c system: 1. There is potential for air leaks through the front bulkhead. These need to be found and plugged. There may also be air leakage from the cabin heating system since the flapper valves depend on foam to make a perfect seal. Likewise, properly installed foam around the engine cooling system radiator substantially reduces the heat load on the front side of the bulkhead. 2. The heat load from the windshield and the roof are huge. People mention the windshield, but the uninsulated roof is also a big contributor. The a/c system is generally undersized to fight this. 3. Particularly, the cabin fan for the evaporator is undersized. The stock a/c system can cool the evaporator to near the freezing point of water. This means there is ample opportunity to transfer more heat to the evaporator by just by blowing more air through it. More airflow would warm the evaporator in a good way. Given point #3 above, probably the first and biggest improvement in a/c performance is getting more airflow across the evaporator. I installed a Spal 30000463 Blower Motor which substantially improved airflow, but even more would be better. The hole pattern is different than the factory Spal motor so an adapter plate must be used. I bought a custom one from an FChat member a few years ago who was doing a “group buy” from a fabricator. What it is really is a piece of aluminum with holes for the airflow and mounting bolts. The configuration is self-evident when the blower is disassembled. Here is a thread with a/c commentary: How cold is your A/C? My last drive before the clutch blew (and this is in no way related to the evaporator fan) was from Monterey back to the San Francisco Bay Area. My wife and I passed through Gilroy which was 112F. My wife said she was comfortable in the passenger seat although I had aimed all vents on her. I was okay in the driver’s seat, but would have preferred a little air blowing on me!
That was my 308, the retroair is great, it's very cold and works well. I opened the upper vents and that helped a lot. Not sure what install would be, the guy that did mine said it was a bit tough. as you need to pull the new tubes from the rear of the car through the passenger side chase that comes out behind the front wheel. then to the condenser. If you want some pictures or ?? let me know. Brian
Along the lines of the heater vent "flappers" under the dash. As someone who lives in the South anyone have a good reason for me to keep those flappers open? I did purchase some silicone to replace them with but more and more I think closing them off is the smart play. Any thoughts?
You live in a favorable latitude for a 308 and its a/c Try it down here in the deep 150% humid south. That's why we kill to keep the R12
I did it myself on my 308. I heard horror stories about running new lines, but pulling the new lines coupled with the old only took a few minutes. If you remove the gas tank, it's much easier. In total I spent probably 8-10 hours. It worked well after charging, definitely not ice cold.
I just did this. Found some 3” vinyl caps on ebay. Capped the flapper path to the upper dash vent at both ends so central dash vent can only get cold air from the AC. Feeling around inside the dash vent plenum there was a piece of rubber that looks to have been a crude one-way valve of sorts but was long since perished. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Mike, check with Tim Cronin here in Austin (ZOOOMZ). He did an exceptionally fine job on his 328, and has done the same with a couple of others. I will be working with him when my GT4 gets back from its time at "the spa". Rgds, Mark
I saw a porsche kit from a company called classic retrofit has an electric setup for 911s. I bet it would work with a 308. There was someone else that did an electric upgrade. https://www.classicretrofit.com/collections/electric-air-conditioning
It would be good if the electric models listed both the BTU rating and the power draw. Maybe they do somewhere in the specs but the couple of electric models I've seen only listed power draw. I've seen all sorts of estimates for BTU necessary to cool a car but 8000 seems to be the minimum I have seen. Of course, the car's AC capability is affected by engine RPM so it depends on what RPM the car's system makes its max BTU...
The electric A/C conversions tried on Fchat did not work. That's the short version. I don't recall who tried but after all the work to install it did not put out enough cooling. IIRC there was going to have to be another try using a higher (48v?) voltage system.
I remember the thread; As I recall the BTU rating was something like 4-6k. There's no way that would be sufficient. Obviously electric can work - Tesla AC works fine!
Electric AC is difficult in a vintage car (or any internal combustion engine vehicle), particularly wi To a first order, the size of the system will depend on the cabin volume and the ambient temperature load. For our little 308 (or a 911 or similar), I'd estimate a 1000W system would provide a very mediocre experience and you'd ideally want at least 1500W and best would be around 2000W. In cars of our vintage, the entire electrical system, at peak, probably draws between 1000-1500W. That means the alternator (or generator for older cars) has been sized to sustain roughly that level of load -- and not much more. So if you want to add an add'l 1500-2000W to the electrical load, you have two "sustainable" choices: - Add another alternator - Double the capacity of the existing alternator In both cases, that's pretty difficult in a 308. And if you're gonna add another alternator, just add the compressor directly instead (way fewer losses). You could also go the "non-sustainable" route: Add another battery. This solution basically means whenever the AC is running, the entire 12V battery is depleting. If you run it for too long, you'll completely drain the system. You can set up the second battery so that it doesn't take out the main battery (using those pesky diodes), but regardless, you'll be living on borrowed time. A typical battery is around 50-60Ah capacity, a 1500W AC system draws 125A, so that means you'd get less than half an hour of full blast AC. Now of course, the AC isn't typically drawing full load (once cabin is cooled, it just maintains the temp)--but I'd guess you'd get roughly an hour of AC. And you're loading down the existing alternator quite a bit. Electric AC works in an electric propulsion vehicle, because that system has a *lot* more battery. The AC draws 2kW, but an electric vehicle has to be able to sustain a propulsion system that is drawing more like 50-80kW (highway speeds). So it's a drop in the bucket. In a combustion engine vehicle, that same 1.5-2kW AC system translates to 2.0-2.7hp -- similar to the electric propulsion system, that add'l load on the the primary powerplant is just a drop in the bucket. That's why it's better to simply add the load directly to the combustion engine (via pulley to the compressor), rather than indirectly (via pulley to an add'l alternator to an electric compressor).
