Brake pad options for 488

I’ve been through 2 sets of RSC1 as well as stock pads. RSC1 felt better than stock pads, but look forward to hearing feedback on RSL1.

 

Please keep us informed of your impressions (both for street and track use, if you do both!). I'm still tracking my 488 occasionally on OE pads and rotors and while I'm not averse to replacing the pads, I'm a lot less enthusiastic about doing a full rotor replacement -- that kind of thing really adds to the expense of the occasional track day!

 

I agree... I’d rather replace pads than wear discs..for my track events I’m planning. I looked at the cost of stock pads and about fell out of my chair. Stupid cost from Ferrari or aftermarket resellers of stock Ferrari Brembo pads. The Pagid RSC1 or 2 cost less than stock but am I reading it correctly here that Pagid has discontinued these?

 

Yes RSC2 pads in the shape that fits there calipers have been discontinued. They have basically been replaced by the RSL1. What is interesting is the fact that a set of RSL1 is significantly cheaper than RSC2. I just paid less than 1700 Euro for the full set.

There is a few things to consider when talking about replacing pads instead of rotors.
First off, while the increased heat of a more aggressive pad will accelerate wear, that won't matter to many. You see, the thing is that the "algorithm" Ferrari uses to determine that your discs are worn, is severely flawed. I genuinely can't figure out if it's an attempt of making easy money or what lies behind it. But fact is that just about every disc I have seen that was claimed to be worn, was far from worn. The whole thing of algorithms and weight is so incredibly dim it boggles the mind. It is not hard at all to tell if a disc is worn by looking at it. If it is rough and pitted, it is worn. If it is smooth as glass, it is not. My point is that if you go by the algorithm but use an aggressive pad, you are much more likely to get your moneys worth as the disc is more likely to be worn when the computer tells you it is worn.

As long as you go by the algorithm, nothing changes no matter what pad you use, as the supposed wear is not properly measured.

Once you have worn a set of discs, you are faced with the option of switching to CCST. If gou purchase OE discs from a place like Scuderia Car Parts, Eurospares or the like, there's little differsnce in price. The matter here is that you simply don't get the advantages of the CCST rotors in terms of longevity and performance. On top of that once the new OE discs are worn, you're again looking at over 10000+ Euro for discs. Refurbishment of CCST discs is around 1500 Euro and this can be done four times.

If you let your dealer order and install OE discs, chances are that price increase exponentially. Paying over 20000 Euro for a set of discs at a dealer us not uncommon, and absolutely insane.

There are pros and cons, but a few things needs to be taken properly into account. As long as disc wear is measured as it is, pad choice has little bearing on disc wear as a reference point.

I can also be much more blunt and call it as I see it. Ferrari is using the algorithm and peoples lack of knowledge as a way to cheat people. In simple terms, I think it's a scam and I know for a fact that people both associated with Brembo and other manufactures concur.

Something else I would like to point out is this. When it comes to aggressive pads and disc wear, heat is the number obe factor. This is important o consider as in some cases a pad with a higher friction coefficient will deliver higher brake force at a lower temp. Look at a RSL1 for instance. It has more friction at 100C than a OE pad has at 400C. This is important as it means that when you drive around normally outside the track, you need to apply less pressure to the pads to get them to perform the same deceleration as with OE pads. Yes the friction coefficient is higher, but pressure is less. So unless you are pushing on a track, disc wear does not really change. You only see a significant difference in temps when slowing down faster. This heat and wear is always directly proportional to the e ergy it takes to slow the car down, and the more efficient the system is, the less it will wear the components. There is a reason why both discs an d pads can survive an entire 24 hour race at the ring. Try that with OE pads. They will run almost as hot, but wear out in 6-7 hours in those conditions. Even those who race, still get a pretty good disc life from the new generation of pads over the old RSL29. The RSL29 delivers a good longevity as well, but has much less friction and thus needs more heat and pressure to perform the same task. It has been a benchmark pad for over 25 years, but new materials have been developed and efficiency has increased.

One data point I have which to me is very important in relation to wear is the temp difference between OE discs and CCST discs. This is what shows me that the technology is working. Aside from the brake feel, the fact that it runs almost 120 degrees cooler is a testament to what it can do and why even race cars see 3-4 times the disc life over CCM.

So where does this leave us. I will get back to you on my findings with the RSL1. As for the RSC2? No matter If you run OE discs or CCST discs, snag them up if you happen to come across them. They are nice pads for sure and I don't see a drawback.

As I will be running the RSL1 with CCST my results when it comes to comfort will differ. The CCST disc simply is a disc that coffers much less noise and runs smoother. But as per Michael from Pagids recommendations,, even with OE discs, RSL1 pads should not be less comfortable than RSC2. My findings has been that RSC2 with OE rotors have not benn less comfy. OE pads and discs squeal and are not very smooth anyway, and I only found RSC2 to be an improvement. Stll a bit noisy, but no more than with OE pads. Will a set of RSL1 be as noisy as a Challenge car running Brembos? According to Michael, far from it, but some one else has to be test pilot for that one at this point.

Hope this helps a bit to answer some questions.

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IL-Co Piloti, yeah I’m very aware of the SST rotors being far better than stock....a lot of my friends with GT3/RS run them and tests prove as you noted they run cooler, brake better and last way way longer. The USA distributor is AutoQuest in FT Myers FL a couple hours from me and are always at the track with us. The Carbon discs Ferrari use are same as Corvette and the cheaper in technology of disc’s as compared to the better Porsche disc and then ultimately the SST rotors.

I was asking about the RSC1 because it’s like the stock pads apparently you can fit up the brake sensors, the dealer is nine the wiser and I do not plan on tracking my 488 enough to warrant purchasing the SST rotors. I’d surely love to have them but they are still super expensive.

 

They are indeed expensive, and thus why they could be seen as an option once the OE disc is gone. They are fairly close in price after all.

Regarding sensors. All the pads can run sensors. RSC1, RSC2 and RSL1 all have provisions for sensors. Here's a pic of the RSL1 pads. As you can see, both front and rear pads have slots for the sensor. Image Unavailable, Please Login

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RSL1's now in, with wear indicators Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

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Curious if anyone has recommends a dealer in the US that is stocking RSL1 pads?

also, do they work well on stock rotors?

 

Rear done Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

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As per Michael Breitenbach from Pagid, the should work well with OE discs. But like I said, I have not run this combo. That being said, the old RSL29 has been used with Brembo CCM rotors for years in racing, so it is not totally uncharted waters. But I cannot tell you from personal experience how comfy they will be.

Any US Pagid dealer can get them. You need pad shape 4580 and 4581.

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You can contact Michael Breitenbach here. He can either get them directly to you or refer you. He's the guy with all the answers

[email protected]

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If you're going to track a ferrari/mclaren/lambo more then a few times then it's better to go with aftermarket right away...If you don't then you will get a very big surprise when it comes to trade/sell your car as they will make you buy all 4 rotors and all 4 pads.. It'll be very expensive.

A data point; my brother in law tracked his performante 5 times over two years - He was forced to replace all 4 rotors and all 4 pads to bring them upto what the wear would have been if it was just street driving - Close to $30K all in.

 

Not sure I understand this. If the pads and rotors were not worn out, what does it matter how they were worn to the point they were? Never heard of anything like that.

 

Pads and rotors start going out as you start tracking the car.

40% wear on brakes from tracking vs. say 10% wear on a non tracked car.

When it comes into trading or selling your car then a person will get dinged on the tracked brakes as they will need replacing sooner. Dealer or potential buyer would recognize that extra cost and it will reflect in the value of the car and/or they will make you replace the rotors/pads to get to acceptable street level type brake wear.

The point was that if you wait to go aftermarket (whether steel or carbon ceramics); the damage (figuratively) has already been done to the brakes if you have a few track days with them and you will need to replace them when it comes to selling/trade (even though it may still have some life in them).

One might as well go aftermarket right away and save the eventual replacement of the more expensive OEM rotors/pads later.

 

how are the RSL1 pads working on stock rotors? I’m trying to make the Chin event at COTA later this month, but can’t find replacement pads for stock rotors.

 

Like I said, I don't know. But Michael Breitenbach from Pagid say they should work well. I have no reason not to trust him on that. He was adament that they should not be less comfy than RSC2. This I believe and here is why. Today my guy at the local speed shop drove the 488 the few km between the workshop and their alignment shop today. He did not bed the RSL1's or do anything. So basically a situation where OE pads have little to no bite normally - you know the feeling of the new pads. He called me up and he his first words were, " These are fantastic!". Granted it has CCST rotors, but still. Not a peep, no scouring, nothing. And even without bedding, they are better than bedded OE pads. I will bed them tomorrow and post my initial findings. But like the RSC2, they were dead silent and smooth with these discs.
My point is that the RSC2 was developed with CCM rotors in mind and Pagid says it's a good replacement for the RSC2. What I was promised so far, holds true. So based on that, when Pagid says the RSL1 is a viable option for the CCM discs, I believe them.

We all know that OE pads and OE discs do squeal, so how RSL1 pads will do, I don't know.

But can you use them and will they stop you? Oh yes, and then some it would seem.

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Love those "custom" color calipers! I know that finish is expensive to get. ;-) LOL

 

That custom finish is only available for truly dedicated clients

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Just came back from bedding in, and those pads are insane

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Where are you ordering pads from? I called Pagid direct they said they are not currently making pads for the 488, which is odd since so many people are using them

 

My previous post is old. Pagid is currently not making the RCS2 for the 488, F8 and Pista.

They do make the RSC1 and RSL1. You need pad shape 4580 front and 4581 rear.

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My OEM Ferrari brake pads lasted me just three track days, after which they weren't totally worn out, but were worn enough that I didn't think another track day was advisable (and the pads had gotten so thin that the heat transfer cooked the rubber boots around the pistons).

So a year ago or so, I swapped Girodisc iron rotors onto my 488 Spider for use on the track. I've long used Girodisc on my track-focused Porsches so it was a no-brainer for me. I challenge anyone who's driving on the stock suspension (and especially if using street tires) to feel any difference from that extra bit of unsprung weight. Maybe a pro driver could, but I sure couldn't.

The Girodisc folks don't show their brake pads on their web site (last time I checked, anyway), but they do sell a couple different track-capable pads for 488s using iron rotors that fit the OEM brakes. I've had great track performance out of the "endurance" pads, although they have tended to squeak a little when pulling up to a stop when driving on the road once they get warmed up.

It can be hard to find a pad that offers good track performance but which will also be quiet on the street. Since I'm using the car more for the street than the track these days, I'm going back to Girodisc to see if they have a recommendation for a pad that'll manage both driving uses a little more quietly.

 

Wait...what? The forum asterisked out the name of the company selling aftermarket rotors? Are you freakin' kidding me? People can post the the names of companies making brakes but not rotors? Can someone explain why?

 

Well I tried iron rotors and I think it was pretty noticeable. Prefer ST rotors. Longer lasting than both and better performing.

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In my experience I have put iron rotors (Girodisc) on my 488 and F8 with great success. I also use Girodisc endurance pads as well. The feel is great and they really stand up to the track use. I do keep the stock CCM rotors and pads and put them on when I sell a car. FYI I am a Pro racer and driving Coach. Racing both cars and motorcycles for 20 years. I do about 20 track days a year in my personal cars.

Just my .02