Brake pad options for 488

I just got the reference to Kevin -

 

Cool thanks for the info. For serious tracking these cars with steel rotors will do much better than factory carbon ceramic rotors. If ST Rotors make their version for the 488, those would best the steel rotors and are so much better than factory carbon rotors.

I am very aware that factory carbon ceramic rotors are really just for looks and not really all that good, Ferrari and Porsche both. I am not planning on tracking my 488 enough to jump through hoops to swap out for steel or try and get ST Rotors to build some.

I would just like to see hard true evidence that Pagid RSC1 or possibly RSC2 do not kill off the fragile Ferrari stock carbon ceramic rotor in a few track days.

 

I don’t seem to hear the same complaints about pad wear on 458s. Is there a mechanical or software difference that accounts for that?


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No. But the 458 uses a different pad design. That being said, a 458 eats pads as fast as a 488.

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Just got off the phone with the guys at Girodisc. While they do not (yet) list pads available for their 488 rotors on their web site, they do have some and if you call them, they can roll them into your order for you. For those looking for pads (to go with iron rotors) for use on street and track, with an emphasis on street-friendliness (read: quiet) over durability on the track, they have pads by Raybestos (ST31's or the softer SS pads). I wouldn't track them with Hoosiers or a highly track modified car, but for light tracking on most courses, using street tires, they should do okay with braking performance as good or better than OEM. And hey, even if you do have to replace them more often, they're inexpensive (especially compared to OEM pads!).

For more aggressive tracking, the Girodisc folks can set you up with Raybestos ST43's. It's a harder pad than the ST31 with better high-temperature performance. Kind of like the Ferodo 1.11's I used to run, they may be quiet on the street for you ...or they may not. But they're a reasonable compromise between being fairly street friendly and providing you with confident stopping ability on more demanding tracks.

For heavy tracking, sprint and endurance racing, Girodisc expects to go live with a couple additional pad options in the next 2-3 weeks.

For me, having tracked my 499 a couple of times in the last couple weeks now (and found the OEM brakes to be a little inconsistent when they got hot), these options make it a no brainer for me. I'm taking my Ferrari the same direction I've taken other full and part-time cars I've owned: Putting the OEM brake components in storage against the time I either retire the car from track use or decide to sell it, and running it with the Girodiscs until then.

Thanks to all for your input and your help in this thread.

 

Kevin, what tracks are you driving?

Thanks for the follow up too!

 

And a 488 eats straights a lot faster than a 458 too bring more entry speed to shave off and more heat and wear. The brake rotors can certainly get VERY hot on a 488 very quickly on a fast circuit..... not the cars strongest suit.

 

When I'm down in FL over the winter, with this and past cars, Daytona, Sebring, and Palm Beach International Raceway, so far. Have not done Homestead yet, though it's actually closest to where I snowbird and it's on my list for next year. When up in Ohio, I frequently run Putnam Park, Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course, NCM Motorsports Park, Indianapolis Motor Speedway (rarely), and Pitt Race. In the past, when going between the two states, I've stopped and run Road Atlanta if there was an event while I was transporting the car. This year, I may venture up into Michigan to run Gingerman again, and perhaps Grattan, which I hear is a fun little course.

(Since I've only had the 488 for six weeks or so, I've only run Daytona and PBIR in this particular car.)

 

Sebring is my home track since 2006 with thousands of miles there. I've done Daytona a lot too but gave up in my Porsches due to the banking throwing codes on the Porsche. I have done Homestead a lot but its been a few years since I drove down to do a Chin event there. Haven't done PBIR though, did the old Moroso track way back in the day and actually did my instructors school there.

Have you taken he 488 on Sebring? As you know Sebring is brutal on brakes...well brutal on everything. I can't find anyone or any video of a 488 on Sebring o see how the car and brakes held up.

I was thinking I'd do a Chin Sebring event and instruct all day but only drive the 488 1 session before lunch and 1 after lunch as I do not want to kill the brakes, turn the calipers a different color and chew up the carbon rotors. Plus my 488 seats are standard electric seats with no real support and in my Porsche's I am use to bucket race seats and harness.

 

No, the last car I took to Sebring was my 997 GT2. I'd love to take my 488, but there's no event (that I can find) between now and my shipping the car north for the summer track season up there. Next year I will though!

 

Chin will be at Sebring March 28-29, April 18-19, May 9-10 before summer starts. I instruct for Chin and was thinking about the April or May event....if I can find out if Paid RSC1 pads destroy the stock carbon ceramic rotors or not. A few people have mention stock pads be eaten at a track in advanced group like Sebring.

 

Here you will find your solution to refurbish the ceramic rotors to a highest level than standard:

https://www.rebrake.de/?lang=en

 

You could try the Pagid RSC2 pads. They are now available for the 488/Pista/F8 style calipers.

 

There's also Surface Transform brakes, which use a more wear resistant technology than OEM, as they use a continuous fibre structure, rather than the old style of chopped fiber seen in CCM rotors. When worn down, these CCST rotors can also be refurbished.

 

I'll have to figure out when I'm shipping my car out -- I'd planned on having it on a truck by then, but maybe I can delay. I see that Saturday is already filled up except for advanced group, but there's some intermediate and advanced slots open on Sunday (which is endlessly frustrating -- though I'm qualified advanced with Chin at a host of other tracks, Chin obstinately requires every driver to start intermediate on EVERY new track you run with them, then test up into the advanced group... so that will limit me to a single day there at this point). :-/

What I've heard (and my mechanic confirms), is that these Ferrari rotors should generally be good for three sets of pads before needing replacement. And if I'm running the OEM brakes, I'd much rather burn through pads and preserve the rotors (as long as you're getting consistent enough stopping out of them). So I'd be really hesitant to run a harder pad on the stock rotors, thinking that would have to accelerate their wear.

That does not apply if you're running a competition slick, or determined to run your otherwise stock street car at 10/10ths for entire 30-minute sessions.

That said, on both Daytona and PBIR, I would swear I noticed some OEM braking performance fall off once the brakes got hot, half-way through even 20 minute sessions and on street tires. So it feels to me like running OEM kind of pushes you toward either backing off to a 7/10ths or 8/10ths lap or two every 2-3 laps to give the OEM brakes a chance to cool a little, or continually, significantly, adjusting your brake points to accommodate this little bit of fade (especially at the end of the straights). Anyone else attest to this?

 

The OEM pads can fade a bit, And if the fluid is not fresh, that's even worse. You might want to consider a better fluid than OEM. If you don't want to try a more race oriented pad, you can still give the RSC1 pads a go. A bit more fade resistant than stock, but still a well mannered road pad.


As for brake fluid. Try one of these.

AP Racing Radi-CAL R4
or
Pagid RBF626

 

That's a good point and I wouldn't ever take a car on the track for the first time or at the beginning of a season without a complete flush and replacement with at least a DOT4 brake fluid (in the past, typically a Castrol SRF or a Motul RBF), or a 5.1 variant (and steel brake lines) for track or race pads and aggressive tracking. And bleed the brakes between track days -- there are few feelings worse than pushing on the brakes and having them go to the floor without slowing you because you boiled your fluid!

 

I’d rather use Moltul rbf660 because I know it’s good from lots of past use. Castrol SRF too.

KevinH, Intermediate group at Sebring can be fast and more relaxing than Advanced solo. If you go let me know and I’d help you at Sebring. I instruct there for Chin or we could talk through some things about the track over the phone. Even though I instruct for Chin at Sebring, Barber, Homestead, and once at Daytona... when I did Road Atlanta I went as Intermediate. It’s really best that way.

I am beginning to wonder how my 488GTB would actually hold up doing a few track events my Porsche cars could? To me it’s neat to have the 488 drive it to dinner but no fun driving around the streets at 45mph or cruising down the interstate at 75....absolutely boring in a performance car and not being able to explore it.

I at least want to do 2-3 track day a year and 2-3 20-30 min sessions. Brakes should be able to hold up to that type of use...my Porsche PCCB’s certain did. I guess my option is put steel rotors on the car. I wonder if the Ferrari F1 transmission can hold up like Porsche PDK can? Too bad no one really knows how a 488 GTB or Pista does at the track.

A local Ferrari owner gasped when I told him in 3 months of ownership of my 488GTB I have done 1,190 miles in it so far.

 

Thanks, mdrums. I actually love the Chin advanced group at Road Atlanta -- probably one of the fastest run groups I've been in anywhere! That's what I enjoy. When I want relaxing, I go sailing (or whitewater kayaking) or something! ;-)

I will say that, having just gotten my 488 back from a post-track inspection and fluid changes, my mechanic (after chuckling at how much wear I put on brand new tires in two days) says the rest of the car looks great and that it warmed his heart to see someone actually driving one of these cars hard (he spent a fair amount of time scraping melted OPR off all those places where it collects after a hard track day). Though it's only been two track days, the pads (and rotors, ofc) still look great and have a lot more life in them.

So I'm still gaining confidence in how these 488s might hold up. Time will tell if they're anywhere near as bulletproof as our Porsches have been (...and I'm not above dangling that "trepidation" out in front of my wife if I think it might be a viable tactic toward finagling an additional "alternate" track car into the garage to take some of the "strain" off my poor l'il F car!).

At any rate, thanks for the offer. As it turns out, events have just conspired to require me to ship my car back north before the end of the month. So my next 5-6 months of tracking will be in the Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania area.

 

Kevin try Mother’s R3 to remove rubber marks...so super easy.

https://www.pepboys.com/mothers-r3-racing-rubber-remover-24-oz/product/617921

Hope we can meet up at a track someday with the F cars...would be a lot of fun. Enjoy your summer up north

 

Just a heads up.

Pagid RSC2 pads are now officially available for the 488/Pista/F8.

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Surface Transforms rotors are now available for the 488 and also the F8 Tributo.

 

where do you buy RSC2 pads? I’ve called several places and the RSC1 appears sold out worldwide.

ive been thtt er Pugh

 

You are right. They have been discontinued for the 4580 and 4581 pad shape. I contacted Pagid and they now offer the RSL1 instead. I talked to Michael Breitenbach from Pagid and he reccomends them as an upgrade over RSC2. I have a full set going on the 488 with CCST discs on Tuesday so can let you know how that works out. According to Michael the RSL1 should be equally comfortable but the CCST discs on their own are more comfy, so it is of course not a direct comparison.
But like I said, Michael from Pagid is of the opinion that RSL1 pads are on the same comfort level as RSC2 on the OE discs.

A bit of a shame with the RSC2. Just to make a comparison, before bedding in, they offered the same stopping power as bedded OE pads. If the promise from Pagid holds true, the RSL1 will be amazing


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