If we have the money : $3M rare Enzo or the upcoming $3M T.50 ? | Page 4 | FerrariChat

If we have the money : $3M rare Enzo or the upcoming $3M T.50 ?

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by elmadi, Aug 8, 2020.

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  1. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    If one took the engine our of an 812 and wrapped it in a carbon rear mid engine setup It would sell out for a Mill a pop
     
  2. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
    4,781
    CT
    The same buyers of the Aston Martin Valkyrie, AMG Project One, Koeniggsegg Jesko, Chiron Pur Sport or maybe the Pagani BC Roadster for starters.
    .
     
  3. FF4X4

    FF4X4 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2016
    158
    "in reality, even if you can afford a $3 mil car, AND have the desire to own it, AND intend to drive it, how many times will you really be driving that car into the city to go for dinner or shopping? i think the answer to that is virtually never"

    You are right, virtually never, as I would not consider driving into the city for dinner or shopping "driving"

    "so who is the T50 aimed at?" Me
     
  4. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    ok. so have you guys signed yourselves up for one?
     
  5. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

    Jan 12, 2010
    1,907
    London
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    Mark McCracken
    has anyone actually read the legal contract and deposit structure with this car?
    I have, and all I can say is, it does not put you in a strong position as the purchaser. After reading the document and taking legal consultation on it, I am actually surprised there are as many as 75 out of the 100 cars pre-agreed.
     
    rmolke85 likes this.
  6. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
    2,129
    UK
    they'll do similar miles to La Ferraris etc then...
     
    F2003-GA likes this.
  7. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
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    Joe Mansion

    Why?
     
  8. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
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    I d be very interested to hear about it if you can disclose the details. Apparently they claim they are all sold now


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    BJK likes this.
  9. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    748
    Agreed 100%.
     
  10. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    So something very specific about the deposit and nothing else? Is it difficult to get some if not all money back in case the company folds or can't deliver for some reason?
     
    elmadi likes this.
  11. Karimsaid

    Karimsaid Formula Junior
    Regional Sponsor

    Oct 2, 2014
    406
    Going from memory but structurally correct:

    LEGAL:
    1. After 1 week of signing agreement you pay deposit 1: £700-750k
    2. At the shortest of 6 months thereafter or when the final personalized specification are agreed, you pay deposit 2: £700-750k
    3. If you don’ t pay a deposit due within 1 week, you loose all what you paid so far
    4. The final price is unknown: the specifications to be agreed (and their unknown price) are concerning things not listed in an appendix which has few bullet points ( chassis, engine, ...) so the glass, seats, painting and whatever else could still be added to the basic price. (Of course if you find its becoming very expensive and decide not to pay deposit 2, you loose deposit 1)
    5. Delivery date is open and it’s the company who can decide to postpone it as they deem fit (with no penalty on them)
    6. The project can be cancelled by the company and the remaining monies returned at any time the company deems that it cannot proceed to the end

    FINANCIAL
    1. High price & time value of money: Lock £1.5m in 2020 and then pay further balance and taxes of around another £1.3m ( don’t forget the unknown pricing of the specifications) at delivery in 2022 earliest but most probably later. Think of investing that money pro rats in F50 or Carrera GT (in 2020 and 2023) and sitting on money until 2025 and see which scenario generate more returns
    2. Risk: At the time of the proposed contract there was no infrastructue, no sales dept, no manufacturing, no service/parts organisation. Just one designer who takes all the credit of the whole McLaren and BMW teams and engineers. The project started to take shape from the risk capital of those who decided to sign and pay deposit 1 (the first 50 would have provided cash of more than £35m)

    PRODUCT
    Go on trust as what was available then was a profile hand sketch, a high-rev engine, 3 seats, a fan. But also an interview could be arranged with the key man.
     
    Chimaera, Caeruleus11, C50 and 7 others like this.
  12. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    The T50 would have been great... 30 years ago

    Looks-wise is night and day. Central driving and so small reminds me of a P50, just weird, and someone who doesn’t know either would think the Enzo is the newer car.

    A car for Jay Leno and Mr Bean...
     
  13. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    THAT is a contract for people with more dollars than sense.
     
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  14. therryzsx

    therryzsx Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2011
    983
    30 years ago? so what is great now? crappy sounding turbo?
     
    635CSI, Wikdstrate, elmadi and 2 others like this.
  15. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    faykau, REALZEUS and BMW.SauberF1Team like this.
  16. Karimsaid

    Karimsaid Formula Junior
    Regional Sponsor

    Oct 2, 2014
    406
    Forgot to add that the deposits are not held in escrow account (like, say, for the De Tomaso P72 car) showing that there is no funding for development except for the money (remember, non-refundable) of, shall we say, the ‘smart’ early ones who decided to sign the agreement.

    I am not sure which is worse: to be on the receiving end or the demanding end of such a transaction...
     
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  17. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

    Jan 12, 2010
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    also Gordon Murry is 74 years old, no doubt he is cool guy who wears a Hawaiian shirt very well and looks great for his age, but if this project over runs for say 6 years your are going to have an eighty year old at the helm and leading the cutting edge of design. Most eighty year olds I know struggle with a few faculties, absolutely no disrespect to the elderly intended.
     
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  18. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Too dorky imo
     
  19. faykau

    faykau Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2013
    656
    I still don't like the aston signature shape too much. But the overall design of the car is very innovative and refreshing compared to the rest of the competition. I hope the performance and the driving experience will live up to the way it looks as well. T50, on the other hand, looks very conservative and generic. Can't say it is ugly but it just doesn't induce any excitement imho.
     
    Igor Ound likes this.
  20. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Warren Buffet is 89 and doing fine I think Gordon will survive this project
     
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  21. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    That thing looks crazy (in a good way). I vaguely recall in one of JWW's youtube videos the AM people saying no one had spec'd one in that silver and all were going with custom stuff...kind of a shame as I think Aston Martins always look great in that silver.
     
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  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Hopefully, but I think the point is well-made as to whether the designer is still in his prime, and perhaps more importantly at his age, his leadership of a dynamic design & engineering project, many of the details of which are yet to be finalized.
     
    elmadi likes this.
  23. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Sure if one has doubt don't By one
     
  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Exactly.
     
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  25. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
    1,342
    Switzerland
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    George
    I think the T50 is a great car and a major engineering statement. I would love to own such a car if I could.
    However there is a big difference between buying such a car from McLaren, Porsche (or better still Ferrari) and buying it from Gordon Murray Automotive.
    First and foremost ordering such a car -on the basis of the contract details we read here- is a major credit risk. You basically plop close to $2m on the table in exchange for “I am Gordon and I will build you the best car in the world, because the F1 was that car and I designed it”. Of course Gordon is a highly credible designer and the F1 is everyone’s favourite modern classic, but he has zero track record in car manufacturing at this scale/cost and we are in the midst of a major economic downturn, so anything could happen. Remember the XJ220 anyone? No one got what they expected and they had Jaguar backing it not GMA.

    Second, consider what happens in 10-15 years’ time assuming GMA is a one-car wonder (quite possible). You basically have a wonderful car with highly specialised parts from X different manufacturers (some of which may well not exist at the time), so try servicing it and -God forbid- do major repairs. You will be calling a lot of different people trying to figure out if they can make another widget for your car and speaking to the other owners to make sure you all order at the same time in order to drop the cost.

    It may all be irrelevant if your plan is to take delivery, not drive it and flip it to someone who is a collector and will pay 2m premium to get it. But if you plan on using such a car...

    I have restored/maintained cars from all sorts of different manufacturers and if you’re looking to avoid long term maintenance/repair/restoration headaches, only three names work: Ferrari, Mercedes, Porsche. The rest require a healthy dose of optimism and limitless reserves of patience


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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