Vettel or the prius driver... | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Vettel or the prius driver...

Discussion in 'F1' started by garrobitto, Aug 10, 2020.

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  1. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    Cool pic - thanks for posting.

    It really is too bad that he couldn’t emulate his idol Schumi. He seems to be a likeable guy and for sure he was shocked not to have been retained for 2021, but he really overstayed his usefulness and it’s probably due to the fact that the team liked him and were hoping to ultimately bring him a championship.
     
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  2. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 1, 2003
    58,228
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    Full Name:
    John
    Maybe he should think back to multi 21 , he's been an ass in the past and it's all come back to haunt him ... no sympathy here ... .just go Vettel, Ferrari won't miss you, you bought nothing to the team like Michael did .... you were no second coming and now he's behaving like a spoilt child, not capable of showing people he REALLY is a champion person like Webber did when given seconds at Silverstone years ago (not bad for a #2 :p )

    Vettel is a fake WDC, Nico was bagged for his one and only WDC but you know what, he EARNED it, Vettel was GIVEN his

    I'm in two minds about Binotto, on the one hand you can see why they are leaning towards a completely Italian team as outsiders have betrayed them in the past (Stepney for one but there have been others) but no one nation has a monopoly on great ideas and he needs to let Rory have free reign and complete control for the next race car, find the best negotiator and get in there and make the right decisions for Ferrari in F1 and stop this token and freeze rubbish .

    It is hard to believe Ferrari agreed to a rule which hamstrings them such that they have no chance of winning this year or next

    Another 21 years ?

    No thanks !!!
     
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  3. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Bas
    You Aussies:D:D:D

    I like binotto, but he should relegate back to where he belongs and where he excels. Clearly it's not TP. He looks utterly lost.

    Well it won't be quite 21 years...if we use that as a baseline, our next WDC/WCC will be in 2029. 9 more to go!
     
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  4. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    John
    And BTW, I didn't rate Webber but the next Aussie to turn up did show Vettel up for what he was
     
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  5. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    John
    Hey Bas, have you seen the F1 facility at Maranello ?

    It's gigantic with 3500 people they say ....... no excuse for losing in my book

    Who do you think should be TP ?

    I haven't got time, I'm working too hard :p

    I could nominate my other half but then there would be TWO Totos in F1 (both know all f... alls :p)

    You could do it but you'd get banned from fchat :D
     
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  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Me TP? **** that I'd rather take Jean Todt's job...Make F1 the spectacle it should be and may the best man win.
     
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  7. root

    root Formula Junior
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    Nov 28, 2012
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    Bay Area, Ca
    I have the same feeling that Vettel is a fake who deserves less credit for winning WDC 4 times than Newey who gave him a car that kept him out of pressure situations where he does his usual spin or boneheaded moves. Newey knew it and so does Lewis (based on his radio talk last year), and I bet other drivers too. Just put him under pressure and watch him spin or crash. Newey's assessment of Vettel that "sometimes he makes stupid mistakes that happen in the heat of the moment. If he leads a race, he is almost unbeatable. But in direct duels he sometimes slips up" is pretty damning for a supposed 4-times WDC, but pretty accurate assessment given Vettel's performance last year and so far this year.
     
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  8. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
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    Andreas
    To quote Elton John: It's a sad, sad situation.
     
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  9. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 1, 2003
    9,192
    and its getting more and more absurd
     
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  10. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    And, to quote a rather famous saying from a french adviser in politics during the seventies: "On ne tire pas sur une ambulance": meaning in English: "You don't shoot on an ambulance", in the sense that his misery is so plain to see that it is not necessary to talk about it...
     
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  11. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    Perhaps you should be reminded that it was actually Michael Schumacher himself who said to Luca di Montezemolo that Vettel was the driver Ferrari needed?

    Funny thing is I was just needing something as a "cushion" to write on a sheet of paper this morning, and I grabed the first magazine in a pile on my desk: it was a copy of the french "Auto-Hebdo" after Vettel's first win for Ferrari in Malaysia 2015; I read it...that was enlightening.

    To me, the truth is that he "lost it" after Hockenheim 2018 and that spin on a damp patch of track; before that, it was working rather well. The sad situation of today is a combination of lost confidence and Ferrari's politics. But if he ends up at Racing Point / Aston Martin as some suspect, he might actually beat Ferrari regularly; next year, and the following year, and the next...I'm not that convinced by their ability to build a good car.

    In fact, I'm not that sure that Sainz Jr made the right choice, this year's McLaren seems a better bet (Good for your own Daniel Ricciardo with Mercedes power next year); as for Leclerc, well...I'm worried: Ferrari has always been rather good at squandering talent.

    Rgds
     
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  12. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Vettel lost his grip in Baku - driving along LH and then hitting. It began there. His absurd screaming in Mexico on the radio. After that he became more consistent in his errors. Hockenheim moved him further to inability to focus and fight smartly.
     
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  13. garrobitto

    garrobitto Karting

    Jul 12, 2020
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    Alameda
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    Garrobito Alado
    The truth is out there but nobody can handle (wow!! I mix two famous media phrases; extra for those who recognized... :D:D:D)
    I still thinking (again all odds) Seb is almost the underground dog now and let's be honest... when you know you're out for next year... what is your motivation? (other than stay at F1 on the pink Mercedes). Even if he abandon F1, he still has an important commercial value. Ferrari does not need Seb but let's see the equation from the other side... Seb really need Ferrari????
     
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  14. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    They dont need each other at all. Neither lives or dies by this. Ferrari have no issues financially etc nor does Vettel. Its time to close the door on this. He needs to go now and Ferrari need to move on........now.
     
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  15. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    I don't think there are 3500 people working at the scuderia
    They say recently 800-900.
    Few months after the disastrous start of 2014 I noticed a dominicali interview where he said challenging Mercedes will be extremely difficult because they have more than 200 engineers at the engine department and Ferrari around 30 "sic "
    Don't know if it was true though.
     
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  16. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Singapore 2017 is the turning point for me concerning Vettel
     
  17. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

    Dec 20, 2011
    3,135
    Vettel is mentally fragile with poor wheel-to-wheel racecraft. He was gifted 4 championships with a superior car that allowed him to get in ahead of the pack in clean air and maintain front position to victory.

    Pretty sad that Ricci coined the "Seb spin" non-contact unforced errors.
     
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  18. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
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    Yes that can be easily said from this perspective. But what about Lewis? I remember he ALWAYS locked his brakes at least once a session, quali or race. And then proceeded to complain about vibration. And how about the years between McLaren and MB? Do you think the car had something to do with it?

    I am not saying that Seb hasn't screwed up and gone off the reservation with his own mistakes. The quip earlier about being 'great on the straight' is a clever insult. Then there is brake checking and pressure blah blah. But what about Suzuka? The esses? Is that 'great on a straight?' Sure Newey gifted Red Bull with fantastic cars and Seb could win from the front and absorb his mistakes. But he still got out there. Within 4 laps before DRS. He can drive and I think at this point was actually "spoiled" by the Newey downforce machines. He got complacent or even too impatient, to exercise his racecraft (not startcraft) and manage a race to win from the middle or back. This has been evident the whole year as he dove into corners and contact, even the one with Max at Silverstone last year, just rushing and doing erratic things. The so called "pressure" failings. It's just a darn shame that he did not get a chance with a great car and team to pull it all together. It's hard to stomach the contrast of Seb at Red Bull in the zone banging out laps and just gapping the field. I suppose I gave too much credit to Seb thinking he could bring it to SF when that was mostly Newey.

    Overall, the talk about sacking Seb or quitting is pretty silly. He has a contract, they pre sacked him after saying he was on...AFTER the Covid19 outbreak. People say SF has money...well they do still maybe because they sacked the non performing 4xWDC for a cheap driver and wasted big coin on an engine cheat? You can not tell me SF and Italy did not suffer from the lock down. The whole world has and that money is gone. I was there when it happened and thank God Parma and Venice were far enough away from Milan at the beginning. All the tourists checked out of their hotels in Venice on the Sunday before Mardi Gras. I stayed until Thursday. By April the water was clear in the canals. Anyway, Italy took a hit, Seb's new not-contract is helping pay for it...and a new engine;)
     
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  19. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    But the talent keeps turning up at Maranello ..... I also believe Sainz made the wrong choice even though I wanted dearly to have Danny Ric at Ferrari, I fear it will be a couple of years before SF come good .... I actually think Renault will come good before SF
     
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  20. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    That should have been a warning about how Seb was as a wheel to wheel pilot. Ricci fully exposed him. Seb did not drive like a 4X WDC that year. Ricci 3 wins - Vettel = 0. Zero wins and new team - mate gains 3.
     
  21. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    They dumped Kimi.............so much for the contract. :) I think your assessment is reasonable given the economic impact on Italy/Ferrari. The question is how long is the cycle of Seb unhappy vs Pit Wall going to last. There will be a limit. Its getting there now I think.
     
  22. root

    root Formula Junior
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    #47 root, Aug 12, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
    It is not silly to drop a net negative team member. They're paying his contract already so the decision is which is better, having Vettel drive and add his usual negatives to the team or pay a little more and have someone else who can be a positive or at least neutral for the rest of the season instead. He's not scoring points, not helping Charles, publicly trashing the team, and he won't be back next year. What is silly is having someone like that continue driving for the team. If SF want to decide now and for the rest of the season would they choose Vettel over say Giovinazzi or Kubica?
     
  23. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    Dont be surprised if Vettel rocks up in the Pink Merc after Spain .With Perez in Ferrari ha?
     
  24. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    The "I love you - neither do I" ("Je t'aime, moi non plus") between Daniel Ricciardo and Ferrari has always keep me wondering...
    He said in an interview (that I perhaps read in ("Motorsport Magazine"?) that he had signed an agreement with them one year in May (don't recall if it was 2017 or 2018) valid until the end of June, on the lines that they had an option on him that they could exercise at will, and he agreed not to enter any other contract until the end of June, waiting for their decision; but he said afterwards that he never felt they really were interested in him...
    Strange, as, to me at least, he was almost the ideal candidate, a very good match in more than one dimension; the truth is that he ticked almost all the boxes, didn't he?
    Considering the competitivity of this year's car, perhaps he has no regrets?

    Rgds
     
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  25. root

    root Formula Junior
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    I thought that was only between Jane Birkin and Gainsbourg :)
     

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